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Compare Aikido steven Seagal techniques and daito-ryu techniques

#41
daito-ryu fighter said:
Dear Isoyama

I respect your opinion but,

I learned exactly the reverse compare what you said. When an opponent has a great physical strenght;or when he is robust to joint lock; or when he is resistant to strike (or pressure) on pressure point, it is difficult to apply jujutsu based techniques. It is why Aiki is used. Aiki is the control of the KI of Uke (associated to Tori KI) without using any pressure point or joint lock. An opponent can' resist when his Ki is controlled. An Example :

Gozo Shioda Sensei (great master ok AIKI) used Aiki principle to beat Mike Tyson. It is clear that Tyson has a physical strenght greater that Shioda Sensei strenght so his only based jujutsu techniques could be blocked.


He also used Aiki with jujutsu techniques (Yonkajo) to beat Bodyguards of the president Kennedy

With who, you studied daito-ryu Aikijujutsu???? in Japan????

bye......................

What do you mean by beat Mike Tyson, they never actually FOUGHT. Right?
 
#42
Dear Isoyama,
What kind of Aiki techniques did you learn????? with who?????

I don't understand why you say that Aiki can't be used on the battlefield!!

Read this:
Mr. Arima commenting on Shiro Saigo's oshikiuchi techniques :"His skills were such that, as soon as he was touched by his opponent, his opponent seemed to lose all control over his balance and strength, and would be thrown with ease. How he accomplished this was hard to explain, even if one saw it with one's own eyes."

P.S For littledragon
Correct Shiosa Sensei and Tyson never actually fought. I used the word "beat" to say that Shida controlled him when Tyson wanted to catch Shioda Sensei
 
#43
daito-ryu fighter said:
Dear Isoyama,
What kind of Aiki techniques did you learn????? with who?????

I don't understand why you say that Aiki can't be used on the battlefield!!

Read this:
Mr. Arima commenting on Shiro Saigo's oshikiuchi techniques :"His skills were such that, as soon as he was touched by his opponent, his opponent seemed to lose all control over his balance and strength, and would be thrown with ease. How he accomplished this was hard to explain, even if one saw it with one's own eyes."

P.S For littledragon
Correct Shiosa Sensei and Tyson never actually fought. I used the word "beat" to say that Shida controlled him when Tyson wanted to catch Shioda Sensei
What do you mean by catch?

In a real fight I think SHIOSA would win ;-)
 
#44
aiki yes defing the laws of physic no

Yes!!!!the definition of Aiki by daito-ryu is only the true definition of Aiki, because their concept of Aiki is the same of the aiki described by Yoshimitsu Minamoto (1056-1127). Don't remember that daito-ryu is the root of Aikido. All techniques of Aikido come from daito-ryu.

You don't know Aiki. Aiki is not love, harmony between people, peace etc.... This concepts are originally from Aikikai and Ueshiba vision of life. Aiki is a very intelligent strategy with great efficacy to control not just the physical power of a fighter but also his mind. i can't define Aiki with words but just see this picture of Kodo Orikawa Sensei:


Aikilove do you understand what you see??? The two Uke are blocked without Kodo Sensei touch them. I can tell you just this : He applied Aiki in particular point of Uke body.
Ryu-fighter,

It is quit clear that you are an "addict" (player) of Daito-ryu. The number of years on your study, I think are a little shady but that's not what I'm debating. You say that all the Aikido techniques come from Daito-ryu then why is it not called Daito-ryu? Aikilove has already quoted something directly from Takeda Sokaku on this point.​
I agree with you that Aiki is not only love, harmony ect... I think this is the main reason a lot of American Aikido Schools are at a decline and of course $$$$. American schools seem to have only got the end of O'Sensei life teaching about Aiki, (not all, but a lot).​
Anyway I just wanted to comment on the picture. Dude did you look at the picture!! The uke's are doing a strenghtening excersise to stretch for sankyo. The teacher looks at the camara wo/man while s/he take a snap shot. Man LMAO. You are not suggesting that this teacher defies physics? I may seem to be a bit harsh but this is all in fun. We are here to learn and have fun.​
 
#45
Seagal's Aikido

Steven Seagal learned his aikido from Isoyama (Aikikai), Koichi Tohei (Ki Aikido), Miyako Fujitani (Tenshin Aikido) and Harry Ishisaka(?). About Miyako Fujitani, some sources said that she was one of ex-sensei of Steven Seagal.
Steven's Aikido and Daito Ryu do have some similarities. When you take a look at his films: Above the Law (his leg lock to the opponent's leg when he's practicing Aikido), Out of Justice (when he did arm-lock to the opponent's elbow who punch him in the fighting scene in the meat shop) and Under Siege 2 (his fingers lock). I can claim this because I have learned daito ryu until 1st dan before. Anyway, Aikido is evolved from daito ryu so they do have some similarities in principles eventhough they are differs in characteristics in each other. The characteristics that I know from daito ryu which differs from aikido are many unusual and unique pins, smaller circling movement and more jujutsu oriented. Daito Ryu itself are divided into 3 levels (aiki no jutsu, aiki jujutsu and jujutsu). Finally, I believe that Steven's Aikido is still aikido which has more Tenshin Aikido approach and has been added some techniques by Steven himself. Miyako Fujitani is currently teaching aikido in tenshin dojo in Osaka, Japan and sells a video of Tenshin Aikido with some video clips in www.aikido-tenshin-dojo.com. I've never learned aikido until now, so forgive me if I've some mistakes information.
 

Aikilove

Old member aikidoka
#46
Hi Aikido. All of the moves you refered to we do in aikido. As far as I know Steven Seagal has never trained Daito Ryu, ever. So what ever he is doing it's not Daito ryu.
Steven Seagal has a Tenshin approach because he is the head of Tenshin Aikido. Tenshin Aikido is not a style of aikido that Seagal started to train. It's the personal style of aikido Seagal created. Fujitani sensei's aikido is different from Steven Seagals aikido.

/J
 
#48
Tenshin

Thank's Aikilove. As a Daito Ryu practitioner, I'm also interested in the powerful throws and excellent immobilising techniques of Steven's style of Tenshin Aikido. Aikido has graceful and powerful throws and Daito ryu also has strong and unique immobilising and pinning techniques, that's my first impression. The most important thing is that we must still respect daito ryu and aikido both. Without kenjutsu, there will be no kendo...without koryu jujutsu, there will be no judo...and without aiki jujutsu, there will be no aikido! Styles keep evolved and innovation by creating new styles are inspired mostly by traditional styles. They are made less dangerous and emphasize more to "do"(way) than to "jutsu"(techniques). By the way, what's the difference between Tenshin and Aikikai style of Aikido?
 
#49
tenshin And Aikikai

Tenshin, is the name of a school of Aikido.

Aikikai is more an umbrella organisation for thousands of schools, who receive recognition for their gradings etc, from Aikikai, which is the Uyeshiba family's school.
 
#50
Technical and history questions!

kokoro said:
Tenshin, is the name of a school of Aikido.

Aikikai is more an umbrella organisation for thousands of schools, who receive recognition for their gradings etc, from Aikikai, which is the Uyeshiba family's school.
Very interesting, kokoro. Are both Tenshin and Aikikai have different technical characteristics in their applications and basics? And who is the founder of Tenshin Aikido? Thank's for your answer!
 
#51
aikido said:
Very interesting, kokoro. Are both Tenshin and Aikikai have different technical characteristics in their applications and basics? And who is the founder of Tenshin Aikido? Thank's for your answer!

I would say they have different characteristics in the basics etc, as many schools seem to differ in what they call the "basics". However, generally, basics ( beginning techniques) are similar from school to school. As for the technical side, that can differ slightly or greatly between schools. Again however, aikido is aikido, in my opinion the difference is in how it is applied or practiced, hence so many different schools and names, but it's still Aikido.


The founder Of Tenshin Aikido I don't really know, could be Fujitani sensei or Seagal sensei, or someone completely different!

hope it helps

kokoro
 

Lotussan

I Belong To Steven
#52
Thanks, kokoro, and aikido...
All I know was that I thought
the name Tenshin was associated
with thier dojo...
Was that the name of Seagal
Sensei's former dojo? I mean does
anyone know if the one he started
is the same one that Fujitani Sensei
is currently running? For all I know it
burned down, he mentioned something
about it catching fire, however a dog was
his (and it's) savior at the time...:)
Sorry for taking the thread off the topic..
 
#53
Aikido you wrote without aiki jujutsu, there will be no aikido

I'm totally agree with you. All aikido techniques are based on daito-ryu principles. But daito techniques were simplified first by Ueshiba Sensei and then by his son. Like you said the famous pinning (for example at the end of a technique) don't exist in all style of Aikido.

Where and with who you studied daito. What is you school???Takumakai, Kodokai, Kondo school.......
 
#54
daito-ryu fighter said:
Aikido you wrote without aiki jujutsu, there will be no aikido

I'm totally agree with you. All aikido techniques are based on daito-ryu principles. But daito techniques were simplified first by Ueshiba Sensei and then by his son. Like you said the famous pinning (for example at the end of a technique) don't exist in all style of Aikido.

Where and with who you studied daito. What is you school???Takumakai, Kodokai, Kondo school.......
I'm currently has no training in Daito Ryu because of some physical problems. Anyway, I'm glad I've reached 1st dan in that art before I quit. I'm trained in an organisation of Daito Ryu Takumakai in Australia. I had a lot of beautiful experiences with daito ryu that I won't forget from throwing, controlling,etc. Can you imagine if Morehei Ueshiba didn't learn any aiki jujutsu techniques from Sokaku Takeda? History'll be changed totally! :p Anyway, thank's for your question and opinions!
 

Aikilove

Old member aikidoka
#56
Aikido and the rest of you,
The aikikai, Steven Seagals aikido style, Tenshin and much more have been written about to great detail already in previous theads on this boars e.g. look at http://www.steven-seagal.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2533&page=1
or just look at some of the threads still in the resent list of threads in the aikido section.

Short story again though: Tenshin is the name of the school in Osaka, Japan, that Seagal took over responsibility for and "re-opened" it as a new school. The name Tenshin was then taken as a name fore the organisation around Steven Seagal. He and all of his students have always and are still training or teaching within aikikai.
So asking what the different between Tenshin aikido and aikikai aikido is like asking what the different is between an apple and a fruit! An apple is a fruit! Tenshin Aikido is Aikikai aikido! One can possibly state that e.g. - Steven Seagal train against kicks more often than Hiroshi Isyoama does, but both are members of aikikai, the umbrella aikido organisation created by the founder Morehei Ueshiba and expanded under his son Kisshomaru Ueshiba and are now headed by his grandson Moriteru Ueshiba.

For more info about the history and styles of aikido and Daito ryu I recommend www.aikidojournal.com and all the articles and interviews within and www.aikiweb.com and www.aikidofaq.com

/J
 
#57
Dear,Daito-ryu fighter.
You wrote "i studied daito-ryu aikijujustu for 10 years (Japan Hokkaido Kodokai dojo), so i know the kokyu. But to learn kokyu it's not a question of time. The important point is the secrets that you receive from Masters.". So, what are these points, if you know them!??
 

tenshinaikidoka

Martial Art Student
#58
A few quick points also...Seagal is the head of Tenshin, which is under the umbrella of Aikikai. Ok, we know this. Miyako Fujitani is the ex wife of Shihan Seagal, and she runs the Tenshin dojo in Japan. If anyone were to visit this dojo, you would see that the techniques are different than what Take teaches/taught currently. Just a bit of info!!!!!
 
#59
Is The Tenshin Dojo Closed?

tenshinaikidoka said:
A few quick points also...Seagal is the head of Tenshin, which is under the umbrella of Aikikai. Ok, we know this. Miyako Fujitani is the ex wife of Shihan Seagal, and she runs the Tenshin dojo in Japan. If anyone were to visit this dojo, you would see that the techniques are different than what Take teaches/taught currently. Just a bit of info!!!!!

I thought he closed the Tenshin dojo? In LA right?
 

tenshinaikidoka

Martial Art Student
#60
The Tenshin Dojo in Japan is still in operation, however it is not affiliated with Seagal in anyway at this point, bad blood between his ex and him I am assuming. The California Tenshin Dojo is closed, you are correct, and it closed after Matsuoka Sensei left. However Luis Santos Sensei, who is directly under Take Sensei, is head of the Tenshin Aikido Federation.
 
#60
tenshinaikidoka said:
The Tenshin Dojo in Japan is still in operation, however it is not affiliated with Seagal in anyway at this point, bad blood between his ex and him I am assuming. The California Tenshin Dojo is closed, you are correct, and it closed after Matsuoka Sensei left. However Luis Santos Sensei, who is directly under Take Sensei, is head of the Tenshin Aikido Federation.

>Where in Japan is the Tenshin Dojo located?