Who Do You Think Are The Best Martial Artists Today?

yudansha

TheGreatOne
learn to validate your sources before assuming them as evident events

Bruce Lee wouldn't fight like that because he was more mature than any other master such as Steven Seagal at that age. Steven Seagal wanted to get recognized as the great one and he did everything he could to be respected especially by the Japanese community. I don't think he cared a rats ass for the American fighters who thought they were all that. And if your best source is Bob Wall, the professional attention seeker who without Chuck Norris would be nowhere, then you've got another thing coming, because you don't know what the heck you're talking about. Bob Wall is one of the things that defines what a rumour is supposed to be.

Bruce Lee was never defeated by no chinese gangs or mobsters or whoever came his way. Bruce Lee defended his honour and his rights to teach anybody he wished no matter how many china town bad ass "wanna-be's" came his way and failed with their threats. That's how Bruce Lee got recognized in San Francisco. Gary, you should probably read some biographies that have been authenticated and were written by biographers who spent portions of their lives studying the Eastern arts and those who dominated the field.

Bruce Lee was not just good, he was gggggreat! (just as that tiger commercial talks about cereal ... I wonder if that's Tora's doing :=)

And Steven Seagal is a great aikidoka who posesses Godly talent (8th dan) in kendo.
 

Littledragon

Above The Law
yudansha said:
Bruce Lee wouldn't fight like that because he was more mature than any other master such as Steven Seagal at that age. Steven Seagal wanted to get recognized as the great one and he did everything he could to be respected especially by the Japanese community. I don't think he cared a rats ass for the American fighters who thought they were all that. And if your best source is Bob Wall, the professional attention seeker who without Chuck Norris would be nowhere, then you've got another thing coming, because you don't know what the heck you're talking about. Bob Wall is one of the things that defines what a rumour is supposed to be.

Bruce Lee was never defeated by no chinese gangs or mobsters or whoever came his way. Bruce Lee defended his honour and his rights to teach anybody he wished no matter how many china town bad ass "wanna-be's" came his way and failed with their threats. That's how Bruce Lee got recognized in San Francisco. Gary, you should probably read some biographies that have been authenticated and were written by biographers who spent portions of their lives studying the Eastern arts and those who dominated the field.

Bruce Lee was not just good, he was gggggreat! (just as that tiger commercial talks about cereal ... I wonder if that's Tora's doing :=)

And Steven Seagal is a great aikidoka who posesses Godly talent (8th dan) in kendo.


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yudansha

TheGreatOne
sorry to disappoint my fans ... lol ... ear biting champ still holds that record

One guy thought he was invincible, the other thought he could fly. They were both wrong! Nobody beats [him] in the kitchen. ~ Steven Seagal

You should watch some of Mike Tyson's work in his earlier years, you won't believe your eyes. Now that's some heavy weight punch.
 

Gary Gabelhouse

New Member
Reply to Replies

Hello All,

I was passing on what was told me--personally. In a telephone conversation I had with Bob Wall, he made mention of the "choke-out" incident. He was just retelling anecdotes with regards to the martial arts and the motion picture industry. My teacher, John Roseberry-Hanshi knows Gene Labell personally and he, too, confirmed the event. Just passing on what I heard through personal communication--not what I have read on the Internet.

The incident in New York was, again, told to me personally and in a phone conversation I had with a body guard of Angelina Jolee who was in the club that night. He is now a foreign movie rights broker. We were discussing selling the movie rights to my novel. I brought up Seagal and Steamroller Productions--and that prompted his telling me of the New York club incident.

My teacher, who I explicitely trust, told me of Bruce Lee's unanswered challenge to Mike Stone. Kow Leung Ong-Sensei, long-time Goju Ryu Sensei in the Shoreikan Chinatown Dojo told me of Bruce Lee's defeats in Chinatown. That came in the form of a personal email message when we were discussing "the pioneers of martial arts in America."

These are the sources of my information. The contexts of such information was such that were purely conversational--with no one having anything at stake. Could it all be untrue? Possibly, but with the exception of Bob Wall, those involved in conveying the information are trusted, martial-artists I have known for decades and who would not lie to me. I must say, I was not totally taken with Bob Wall. He seemed a bit to bragadocious for my tastes. Also, he breached a business axiom I have which is to never swear during a business conversation. Even though I swear like a sailor, I do not swear during a business conversation.

Best Regards,
Gary Gabelhouse
 

yudansha

TheGreatOne
you see, that's just the problem with the stories passed by the word of the mouth

I was not knocking anybody down. I was just expressing what I have read from numerous different publications. I know you were just expressing what was passed to you by a word of a mouth.

Angelina Jolee? wow

I don't know if there exist any fans of Bob Wall at all. He is more of a businessman than a martial artist (it seems like all his martial arts skills went to waste when he became concerned with money more than with anything else), and he ain't a good businessman either (I would never do any sort of business with him, but then again I don't know why he would want to do any business with me either).
 

Littledragon

Above The Law
Gary Gabelhouse said:
Hello All,

I was passing on what was told me--personally. In a telephone conversation I had with Bob Wall, he made mention of the "choke-out" incident. He was just retelling anecdotes with regards to the martial arts and the motion picture industry. My teacher, John Roseberry-Hanshi knows Gene Labell personally and he, too, confirmed the event. Just passing on what I heard through personal communication--not what I have read on the Internet.

The incident in New York was, again, told to me personally and in a phone conversation I had with a body guard of Angelina Jolee who was in the club that night. He is now a foreign movie rights broker. We were discussing selling the movie rights to my novel. I brought up Seagal and Steamroller Productions--and that prompted his telling me of the New York club incident.

My teacher, who I explicitely trust, told me of Bruce Lee's unanswered challenge to Mike Stone. Kow Leung Ong-Sensei, long-time Goju Ryu Sensei in the Shoreikan Chinatown Dojo told me of Bruce Lee's defeats in Chinatown. That came in the form of a personal email message when we were discussing "the pioneers of martial arts in America."

These are the sources of my information. The contexts of such information was such that were purely conversational--with no one having anything at stake. Could it all be untrue? Possibly, but with the exception of Bob Wall, those involved in conveying the information are trusted, martial-artists I have known for decades and who would not lie to me. I must say, I was not totally taken with Bob Wall. He seemed a bit to bragadocious for my tastes. Also, he breached a business axiom I have which is to never swear during a business conversation. Even though I swear like a sailor, I do not swear during a business conversation.

Best Regards,
Gary Gabelhouse


Mike Stone was Bruce Lee's student, Stone never challenged Lee geeze! Get your facts together!

Bruce never was defeated in Chinatown. One of the Chinatown kung-fu masters did not like Lee teaching kung fu to foreignors and challenged him, the fight was excatly 3 minutes and the china town master gave up. Dude before you say something get the facts correct. I am only 15 and I at least can back up my info with real facts.

And what exactly is your point you say Seagal and Lee aren't good fighters?? Who do you think are good fighters than??
 

Littledragon

Above The Law
Gary Gabelhouse said:
Hello All,

I was passing on what was told me--personally. In a telephone conversation I had with Bob Wall, he made mention of the "choke-out" incident. He was just retelling anecdotes with regards to the martial arts and the motion picture industry. My teacher, John Roseberry-Hanshi knows Gene Labell personally and he, too, confirmed the event. Just passing on what I heard through personal communication--not what I have read on the Internet.

The incident in New York was, again, told to me personally and in a phone conversation I had with a body guard of Angelina Jolee who was in the club that night. He is now a foreign movie rights broker. We were discussing selling the movie rights to my novel. I brought up Seagal and Steamroller Productions--and that prompted his telling me of the New York club incident.

My teacher, who I explicitely trust, told me of Bruce Lee's unanswered challenge to Mike Stone. Kow Leung Ong-Sensei, long-time Goju Ryu Sensei in the Shoreikan Chinatown Dojo told me of Bruce Lee's defeats in Chinatown. That came in the form of a personal email message when we were discussing "the pioneers of martial arts in America."

These are the sources of my information. The contexts of such information was such that were purely conversational--with no one having anything at stake. Could it all be untrue? Possibly, but with the exception of Bob Wall, those involved in conveying the information are trusted, martial-artists I have known for decades and who would not lie to me. I must say, I was not totally taken with Bob Wall. He seemed a bit to bragadocious for my tastes. Also, he breached a business axiom I have which is to never swear during a business conversation. Even though I swear like a sailor, I do not swear during a business conversation.

Best Regards,
Gary Gabelhouse


Why are you believeing Bob Wall? He is a terrible fighter, he challenged Seagal and Wall was so low at that time Seagal didnt even take the time to acknowledge it, and Gene LeBell wasnt apart of Under Siege, he was apart of Rapid Fire but not Under Siege. He was working on Rapid Fire at the time of Under Siege was filming.
 

yudansha

TheGreatOne
as usual - guys the site is finally fixed - more misunderstandings

Littledragon, perhaps I should intervene for awhile. Mr. Gabelhouse was just explaining what he had HEARD and was passing it along to us, martial arts enthusiasts, in case we were interested to know other stories going around. I don't think his intent was to put down or insult anybody's skills in any way. Although I also have to disagree and question this statement: "neither Lee nor Seagal are GREAT fighters." Other than that, I understand where both of you are coming from.
 

Littledragon

Above The Law
yudansha said:
Littledragon, perhaps I should intervene for awhile. Mr. Gabelhouse was just explaining what he had HEARD and was passing it along to us, martial arts enthusiasts, in case we were interested to know other stories going around. I don't think his intent was to put down or insult anybody's skills in any way. Although I also have to disagree and question this statement: "neither Lee nor Seagal are GREAT fighters." Other than that, I understand where both of you are coming from.


Just clearing up the false comments made by him or should I say Bob Wall
 

yudansha

TheGreatOne
I guess with a name like Wall, the genes have to code for some 'denseness'

Bob Wall is not much respected in the martial arts world anymore for his low level of maturity. I remember reading about those 'arranged' 12 sportsmen challenging Steven Seagal in BlackBelt magazine. And it all ended up by showing how big of a liar Bob Wall really was, and had to hide behind 11 other guys, who never gave their consent about such publications in the first place, in order to challenge Sensei Seagal. I think it was thanks to Chuck Norris that the so called feud between Bob Wall and Bob Wall himself ended. (Chuck probably put Bon into a wall and told him to shut-up; maybe not, but Chuck Norris is known for his wisdom)
 

ORANGATUANG

Wildfire
What about David Carradine?..What is he chopped liver?..He was ok in ass-kicking how little we forget him huh....Heather.
 

yudansha

TheGreatOne
David Carradine? who ... LOL yeah yeah yeah ... will never be forgetten!

Heather, I gotta say that I loved that Kung-Fu show. It was the martial arts series I was hooked on when I came to Canada. It made me continue my wu-shu practice, since Steven Seagal movies weren't showing on TV then as often as they are now or a few years back.
David Carradine is a good martial arts ACTOR, who obtains some skills. However, it is more of Tai-Chi style that is shown, and it doesn't do it for me. He's good, but Jet Li and Jackie Chan (along with Jamal Ajigirei who, world class wu-shuist, you obviously never heard of) are the movie persons who I really look up to more (besides Steven Seagal ofcourse).
 

Lotussan

I Belong To Steven
Not too long ago, he said something about how great he was at kicking other people's butt...
Including Steven's...
I laughed at that...
Maybe one isn't that good, so they have to show off?
That isn't a very nice thing for a martial artist to say, obviously he has no respect for the others out there...
Not that there are too many who are very impressive these days...
That's what is so great about Steven, he doesn't (to my knowledge) say that stuff, or go around saying he can kick this guys butt or beat this guy up, etc...
Although, there was that supposed incident with Bob Wall, if you believe that,
I personally don't...
I don't know if you all saw the Martial arts documentary with SS and Samuel
L. Jackson in it on one of the movie channels awhile ago, but omg, Steven was a total gentleman, and he was romantic, too...:)
But, however ridiculous Carradine acts in public, I did really like the Kung
Fu series when I was younger...
He sure isn't a very handsome man, though...
Not that looks are everything, but Steven sure has that going for him ya know...
 

yudansha

TheGreatOne
who are you kidding there Lotussan

LOL Lotussan
Steven Seagal just got more mature and more into his spiritual self. He was as cocky and as errogant as any fighter wanting to show off. If Seagal never did that, he would probably not be as popular as he is today. Unlike Bob Wall, Steven Seagal has a wise head on his shoulders and knows his limitations (whatever those maybe - that sort of thing may puzzle some of the fans but limits always exist otherwise you are in a state of denial, and like Exit Wounds pointed out - "Denial is a classic symptom of agressive rage...").
 

Zagon

Zagon
first of all, this is about who is the greatest fighter. How else can you determine how 2 fighters stack up unless they were to fight, even if its hypothetical? This thought that they wouldnt have fought each other is true, but irrelevant.

Everyone having different styles is kind of the point. You have to imagine how Chuck Norris' fighting techniques would stack up against Inosanto's. Or how would Jet Li's speed help him in a fight against Gracie. And the whole thing about Bruce Lee, is he has no style. Jeet Kune Do “favors formlessness so that it can assume all forms and since Jeet Kune Do has no style, it can fit in with all the styles.”

Lotussan said:
I don't know what bearing size has in a real fight, but it must mean something...

This is why i'm having serious regrets about having engaged you in a conversation about fighting -- if you think size matters in a fight, respectfully, you obviously havent trained or been in any fights yourself.

Bruce Lee: "A powerful athlete is not a strong athlete, but one who can exert his strength quickly. Since power equals force times speed, if the athlete learns to make faster movements he increases his power, even though the contractile pulling strength of his muscles remains unchanged. Thus, a smaller man who can swing faster may hit as hard or as far as the heavier man who swings slowly.

The athlete who is building muscles though weight training should be very sure to work adequately on speed and flexibility at the same time. In combat, without the prior attributes, a strong man will be like the bull with its colossal strength futilely pursuing the matador or like a low-geared truck chasing a rabbit."


yudansha said:
Bruce Lee: he was approximately 70kg (about 155lbs.) and was seen by various witnesses to be able to pick up a 35kg (77lbs.) dumbbell in each hand, raise the arms to his shoulder height, and hold the weights for over 30 seconds. No other man (bodybuilder or not) could ever achieve such strength of ratios in weight lifting to body mass as Bruce Lee has. Bruce Lee, as part of his routine did push ups and was as much into bodybuilding as he was into karate (he started with wing chun kung fu, but wanted to acquire more energy and took up weight lifting by the influence of mucle structure that the body builders of the time had - Schwarzenegger was unknown to most in those times, 70s). Anyways, the push ups that Bruce Lee did were one handed. And get this: he did them on one finger. That's the strength you can only imagine. I tried and well, basically I am used to just one handed push ups, so this time my face was imprinted in the carpet.

And as Tora has said, it is no joke that Bruce Lee could concentrate all his power into a short distance, and just by being an inch or two away from you he would be able to make an impact that would send a man (or a woman) weighing over 100kg (220lbs.) to a distance 4-5 meters (about 12-15 feet) away.

That's only his upper body strength. Now his leg work was just as amazing, as he was able to advance a collision on a 120kg (264lbs.) suit case and make it airborne up to 3 meters into the air. And, talk about speed and fast movements: Bruce holds a record for being able to cover a meter of an empty space faster than anybody else in two hundredth of a second (0.02s). Even in Formula1 racing that's considered to be a relatively small difference in time lapse.

That's just some (... some ...) info on Bruce Lee's capabilities. So, don't go comparing him to Steven Seagal


thank you.


gary gabelhouse said:
Not wishing to cause heartburn, but neither Lee nor Seagal are GREAT fighters. Bruce Lee was regularly beat up when he visited Chinatown. Also, he refused numerous challenges. At the seminar/tournament in Long Beach, where he demonstrated his one-inch punch, my teacher and Mike Stone (one very GREAT fighter) were in the audience. After seeing Bruce Lee demonstrate, they challenged Lee to a no-holds barred fight. Lee deferred.

So he deferred that time. And? That's your argument that he wasnt the best fighter of his time? That's weak. There are a hell of alot of people on record who saw firsthand Lee get challenged on an almost daily basis on his sets, and he wiped the floor with each and every one. This is fact.
 
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