Boycott SEAGAL!!

Kotegashi

Master Of Disaster
Staff member
I don't post in your thread anymore in order not to disrupt your flow. You're doing great keep it up. The story is coming along very good, i like it.

Peace

Been far too long kikyou, nice to see you back i think that if Steven was going to do another under siege it would have happened before now BUT i do little short stories here over on the 'off topic' section iam having an go at writting UNDER SIEGE 3 :- PAYBACK...this one iam going to take my time doing as i want to get it right i must be doing som ething good nearly 2000 views ...:) and i havent really got started yet...if you want to have an read love to get an comment to what you think ..wish others would ..
 

marky96

Active Member
Haven't checked in here for a while but sad to see the change in tone. I appreciate the opinions, and I can see how people might have come to the conclusion to stop supporting Seagal's work, but I think a call for a 'boycott' undermines the many great films that he has shared previous.

I will agree without any reservations regarding the decrease in quality of output over the last 10 years or so, the unnecessary body doubles, voice dubbing and so on, but I'll stop well before a comment like "fat belly", because that is what used to separate a place like this for constructive discussion from sub forums of other actors or film franchises.

If this is how the tone of forum is going to be, why bother? Just shut the forum down.

The change in tone here is due to Seagal himself and no one else. The majority of people here wouldn't be upset, annoyed and frustrated if Seagal was producing the high quality films we all know he is capable of. No one is denying how great Seagal's early films were but that's what makes his DTV output over the last 11 years so disappointing.

I really don't think there is any need to call for the forum to be shut down just because the majority of people don't agree with you're opinions. Even without these discussions the forum does still celebrate Seagal's early films plus the off topic section is thriving with news and discussions about other action stars and their films.

I agree ben85. I agree.

My response was in regards to this notion of a "boycott". I have never said nor claimed that Steven Seagal could "do no wrong"....I have been on this forum going off about voice overs and shaky camera migraine/seizure inducing camera shots...just to name a couple of things.

If I come across as arrogant, that was not my intention.

I cringe at the thought that some of the members of this forum would speak to Steven in person in the same manner that they speak on this forum.

THAT is where you find the arrogance and disrespect.

Why would I not speak to Seagal in person in the same way I talk on here? Surely he would want to know what his fans think of what he's been doing and the films he's been making? I'm always positive about Seagal's early films and when he does something good in more recent times too. I also speak my mind when something isn't that great either, which seems to upset a few people on this forum.

We obviously differ on what being a fan means because I didn't think being honest and open meant I was arrogant and disrespectful.

Under Siege 3: Plane Danger is a rumored title that has been flowting around the internet for the last 5 years, + Wikipedia is not an official source for anything and is as reliable as Imdb, which means that its 50% reliable and 50% rumors. So dont count on Under Siege 3 ever being made. Also Warner Brothers own the rights to the Under Siege franchise and they havent shown any interest in working with Seagal the last 12 years.
And with the way things are going now W.B. would never work with Seagal, they have new and bigger names to make money off. Seagal is acient history for W.B. and so is the Under Siege franchise.

Exactly right Boyd, the time for Seagal to work with Warner Bros. is gone now. If it was going to happen it would have happened already. Personally I wouldn't want to see another Under Siege film made with Seagal's career the way it is now. Another Under Siege made as a cheap DTV film starring an out of shape Seagal would just be a travesty of the two original great films.

I think the bashing against S/S is sad, especially on his site. You few morons have the nerve to state "your" opinions. I like S/S's movies, and don't think he's too heavy at all. I was just thinking how good he looked since he's married his Asian wife, and how she must be taking good care of him. It's nice your egos are so big that you think you matter in the scheme of things, but unfortunately you are not the gold standard of the world. And gay men have a much "thinner" standard of men than women do. I do not like men who are bone skinny. But then I don't judge people by their outter appearance to that extent either. I think if you're that shallow you yourselves have some work to do on your brains, and yourselves. There is a lot more in life than superficial lust. I am sad that I haven't been here forever and come and see such shallow crap. Grow up.

Who are you? I'm assuming youre a friend or relative of a board member? i say this because its highly suspicious that you're a brand new member wading straight into a long running discussion without any sort of introduction. It is funny how when the tide of the argument has pretty decisively turned one way, you pop up out of nowhere with some extremely threadbare arguments.

Perhaps you do think Seagal looks good in his recent films, however some of us 'morons' can look at the bigger picture. When you compare him with other action stars of his age (so to make it a level playing field), Seagal is just way off the pace. Even when you use the historical example of Charles Bronson films from the 1980s when Bronson was in his 60s, Seagal is still miles away from where he needs to be. The bottom line is that he is just not believable as an action star.

You say that our egos are so big that we think we matter in the grand scheme of things. Well I would argue that it's pretty obvious that as fans we do matter. After all without fans buying his products Seagal doesn't have a career left. In what you're saying it also comes accross very like you think you matter more than anyone else. Again so much arrogance coming through from certain members in this discussion. I'm afraid to say judging by you're first post I don't think you're the gold standard of the world either.

You're next point is so flimsy that it would be laughable we're it not for the fact it's weird and somewhat disturbing. You seem to be suggesting that any male fans that want Seagal to lose weight is doing so because they are homosexual and would find him more attractive if he were thinner. Firstly what about any female fans, why do they want Seagal to lose weight? Do their opinions not count, what a very sexist opinion you have. No one on here has to talk about their sexuality because its just not relevant to the discussion. You're just clutching at straws because you don't have anything of any substance to say. I don't have any 'superficial lust' for Seagal not do I judge people by their outer appearance. However Seagal needs to do something with his appearance if he is to remain relevant.

Personally I'm happy that you've not been around forever with youre superficial crap. I think it's you who've got A LOT of work to do on yourself and you're brain. Now go and GROW UP.
 

bens85

Active Member
The change in tone here is due to Seagal himself and no one else. The majority of people here wouldn't be upset, annoyed and frustrated if Seagal was producing the high quality films we all know he is capable of. No one is denying how great Seagal's early films were but that's what makes his DTV output over the last 11 years so disappointing.

I really don't think there is any need to call for the forum to be shut down just because the majority of people don't agree with you're opinions. Even without these discussions the forum does still celebrate Seagal's early films plus the off topic section is thriving with news and discussions about other action stars and their films.

Just a second here, I think that I was fairly reasonable in my post, and I hope you are not implying that I have a ego, or I need to grow up, or anything like that. I'm not the most regular visitor to the forum, but I believe I have tried my best to contribute to reasonable discussion.

In my original post I agreed with you that the last 10 years or so of releases have not been of quality, particularly compared to the preceding works. I didn't not call for the forum to be shut down at all, I was only suggesting the negative implications of calling for a "boycott" and how it would affect the connection between members here.

I don't want you to think of me against you or against anyone else. I share all of your opinion regarding Seagal's work. I was just concerned about the impact it would have on the forum in general. I know there is alot of activity outside of the main discussion, but I just thought we are all here because we have a common interest in his work.
 

Ladybug

New Member
You know I will say that because this is my first post means zip. You all have some sort of "entitlement" mindset. What exactly do you think you have as far as "rights" over any S/S fan, because they've not been here in years?! I think your entitlement mentality says it all. I am a true S/S fan. I love S/S, as is, and think he's the bees knees, the best thing since sliced bread, etc. I am a fan. I wouldn't dream of stating my opinions in a way that not only criticises him, but threatens a boycott. Why don't you start another site that is for people who think S/S isn't that good, or as good as he was. If you don't like him that much why are you here. And sorry if I insulted you with the gay comment, I just figured anyone that interested in his physique of the male gender must be gay. Sorry!
 

JoshStern

Active Member
You know I will say that because this is my first post means zip. You all have some sort of "entitlement" mindset. What exactly do you think you have as far as "rights" over any S/S fan, because they've not been here in years?! I think your entitlement mentality says it all. I am a true S/S fan. I love S/S, as is, and think he's the bees knees, the best thing since sliced bread, etc. I am a fan. I wouldn't dream of stating my opinions in a way that not only criticises him, but threatens a boycott. Why don't you start another site that is for people who think S/S isn't that good, or as good as he was. If you don't like him that much why are you here. And sorry if I insulted you with the gay comment, I just figured anyone that interested in his physique of the male gender must be gay. Sorry!

You really are demented.
 

Kotegashi

Master Of Disaster
Staff member
What the mods do behind the scenes and what you don't see is a lot.

Ladybug and others bashing each other have been warned, and with this reply so have you.

Now quit behaving inappropiate and let's all behave civil.

Peace

It definitely is.

And at the same time the mod's has the nerve to lecture us about how to behave, but do they lecture the new members, no they dont.
The post made by the new member Ladybug was just as provoking as the replies some of us have posted a few days ago. When people are attacking us then ofcourse we respond in the same way, its only natural. But the mod's obviously dont understand that.

And by the way, its the worst way for a new member to start off by attacking the old members and calling them names. Not a good move, it will definitely not go unnoticed.
 

ORANGATUANG

Wildfire
I don't post in your thread anymore in order not to disrupt your flow. You're doing great keep it up. The story is coming along very good, i like it.

Peace


Thanks for that Kotegashi ... if theres one thing Orangatuang aint good at and thats counting its just over 1300 views to my story but its all good...shall do my best
 

Ladybug

New Member
Don't warn me, because I don't have the fragile exterior you guys do. The bashing and disrespect here is to S/S. And it is funny that you guys can hand it out, but you can't take it. My opinion is my opinion. Sometimes the truth hurts. Don't try to gang together as the threat mob and chase away people who like S/S so you can bash him, and then cry when you get your feelings hurt.
 

Kotegashi

Master Of Disaster
Staff member
Don't warn me, because I don't have the fragile exterior you guys do. The bashing and disrespect here is to S/S. And it is funny that you guys can hand it out, but you can't take it. My opinion is my opinion. Sometimes the truth hurts. Don't try to gang together as the threat mob and chase away people who like S/S so you can bash him, and then cry when you get your feelings hurt.

I think you misunderstood me. We (the moderators) warn everybody who is bashing/dissing/mistreating any other member of this forum.

Peace
 

Mason

Well-Known Member
We are all adults, and even though we do not all agree on the same subject we are surpose to be able to have a mature conversation with each other without flying off the handle all the time .. So keep it nice and clean!!

Thank you!!

Ps: If any of you have some issues with each other, take it to PM!!
 

JoshStern

Active Member
Its pretty obvious that LadyBug came in here to harasse others, so therefore we harasse her back!! The very first thing she did when she signed up was to call people names in a agressive tone, and as long as she keeps this up (in both the Forum and Pm) then she will get the same thing smacked right back in here face. If she thinks that we (long term members) are gonna leave becouse a new-commer who are not satified, then she's got another thing coming. If she is not satisfied with the people on this forum (which she obviously isent), then she is the one to go!!
 

Kotegashi

Master Of Disaster
Staff member
Its pretty obvious that LadyBug came in here to harasse others, so therefore we harasse her back!! The very first thing she did when she signed up was to call people names in a agressive tone, and as long as she keeps this up (in both the Forum and Pm) then she will get the same thing smacked right back in here face. If she thinks that we (long term members) are gonna leave becouse a new-commer who are not satified, then she's got another thing coming. If she is not satisfied with the people on this forum (which she obviously isent), then she is the one to go!!

Ladybug has been given an official warning. If she insist on harassing other members she will be (temporarely) banned. But this counts for all members.

If there is a problem with a member please use the report option, the admin's will receive a message and will take action if necessary. So please do not start answering back to abusive members in similar tone, report them and the admin's will pick it up.

Peace
 

marky96

Active Member
But nobody can deny that if Seagal gets a bit more in shape and wouldn't be so negative about fellow actors, like he was in that interview recently, he would have more change at parts like in Machete.

Or even a leading role in a bigger budget (perhaps even cinematic) movie.

Completely agree with you there at the centre of this argument is the fact that Seagal needs to do a number of things in order for his career to continue in any meaningful way.
 

supertom

Disgruntled fan!
Much as I'd love to see Seagal hit form again, and appreciate the sentiments of the terms of the boycott, it's not very realistic. Seagal is the only one who can make a difference. He doesn't seem to want to. He's seemed disinterested for years now. The thing is, look at his work. Seagal has a lot of control over his pictures. Now it's certainly true that largely, the producers will have the final word on everything. If they want to slice a budget in half if needs be or sacrifice the art and integrity of a film for financial reasons, they will. But Seagal has been a producer and/or writer on most of his features in the last 10 years. He's also been a key "creative" influence on TJ. Now to be honest I think TJ is completely and utterly mediocre.

Now anyone hoping for a theatrical comeback will be disappointed. Despite the Expendables, there's really no demand on the big screen for many of these stars any more. All together in the one film? Yes, because it has an angle, it's a gimmick. It's sellable. Seagal won't appear in Exp 3 though. His ego won't allow him. He won't play second fiddle to those other guys.

DTV doesn't have to mean terrible. The thing is, there's less demand for these films now than there was. That's part of the reason that Seagal doesn't make 2-3 DTV films a year any more. Generally now, the DTV studios can't afford to pay Seagal, Van Damme, whoever, 4-5 million to headline a film. What studios do now is bring together 2-3 name actors in a film together, and pay for two stars what they'd have paid for one 5 years ago. The idea being that you have two fan bases who'll buy the film or it just looks more appealing to discerning buyers/renters. Dolph's team with a whole host of stars in his DTV films recently. In part because he can still be in films with the same budgets (or no less) and because he's been far more interested in pushing himself as an actor, taking on more colourful, antagonist roles. On his own, as a leading man, the offers probably aren't great, and budgets would be lower than what he's used to. Same goes for Seagal, JC, all of them. A picture sold with their name alone won't have the production value it did 5 years ago (which even then wasn't great). The economic climate is a factor, as are tastes. People have had one too many awful films. That's especially why the interest in Seagal has waned. His films have been horrific and he's showed no effort. At least with Van Damme and Lundgren, you know, mostly, that they're trying.

Seagal has to want to change. He has to want to put the effort in. He seems to enjoy voltage pictures because of it's ease. He's working with the same people all the time who don't mind that he'll turn up for half a shoot and still be the "lead" of the picture. More and more DTV studios are basically selling movies as "star" vehicles, and then said lead will appear intermittently. I mean I loved Unisol 4. Really well made, really daring direction to take a franchise like that. What I didn't like was the cynical, dishonest marketing though. Every DVD cover sells it as a Van Damme and Lundgren starrer, but they're very brief supporting players in it. It's becoming common though. Even films where theres only one star, like Van Damme in 6 Bullets. He disappears for large chunks of the film. It was still a fairly decent DTV though. In actuality, Seagal's been doing this since the turn of the millenium on the whole. Very rarely in his DTV films do you see him throughout the whole movie. Often he disappears for 10 minutes before re-appearing. Then add on top the doubling and voice doubling too. You could say he pioneered the way DTV films are now being made and marketed.

He just doesn't have the desire. If he did, it be easier to just blame the producers if a film turns out shite. But when Seagal looks so bored, it falls on him. There's no crafting of a character, he doesn't deliver with the action or even record all his own dialogue often. He basically appearing for the money. There's no love there. People have finally gotten wise to it. One thing I always felt about this message board, even as recent as a couple of years ago, was despite how awful most of his films were, his fans were sticking rigidly to Seagal. So many defending him to the end. I see Oranguatang here, kind of in the corner by herself defending Seagal to the last, which I completely admire by the way. Good on her. Because where as the likes of Oranguatang would have been in the majority here a couple of years back, she's in the minority now. So please don't get at her, it's her right to defend Seagal. I for one thoroughly commend that loyalty. If only Seagal himself had the same pride in his work.
What Seagal needs to be worried about though, but probably won't be, is that fans like her are slipping away with every passing film.

Here is an interesting interview with director Jessie Johnson. He's done some very solid DTV work, including The Package with Austin and Lundgren. It's by no means a classic but it's a solid action flick and so much better than Max Conviction. But he gives great insight into working in these DTV films. It shows just how hard it is to work artistically when the people producing and financing the films are business men first and foremost.
http://moviemorlocks.com/2013/03/26/dtv-action-item-an-interview-with-director-jesse-v-johnson/

Sadly I don't see anything changes. Nothing we do on the net will force his hand. But it's down to Seagal. He does it for the money and whilst people are still willing to pay him, so be it. It's probably what funds his music and his lifestyle. I've no doubts that if Seagal concentrated purely on his music he'd be losing money.
 

Administrator

Administrator
Staff member
Great post supertom. :)

Nice interview too, great read. Do you think from that they are now trying to get as much television money as possible now rather than from DVD releases? He said they had to shoot it so it was safe for television.
 

supertom

Disgruntled fan!
Great post supertom. :)

Nice interview too, great read. Do you think from that they are now trying to get as much television money as possible now rather than from DVD releases? He said they had to shoot it so it was safe for television.
That's possibly one point. I mean direct downloads are increasing in popularity, whilst DVD's sales are dwindling. It's possibly that they just wanted to reach a wider audience worldwide, not be too violent. Again, it's down to money.
But given the film was shot in 17 days, I thought it was very well made. Johnson is the sort of director SS needs to be working with.
That said, perhaps Seagal works with Waxman because it's easier. Seagal probably likes to run a set. He probably doesn't want to be put in his place or work with people who will question him if he wants to change his dialogue or take control of his fight scenes etc. Producers sometimes think like that when hiring directors. They don't want anyone who'll question their authority. Shoot on time, within budget, keep the star happy. Who knows?
But Johnson is very knowledgeable and considered in what he does, as well as being decent at working under the strict conditions of some films. I'm sure Waxman, given some more freedom might do something considerably better, but he's offered very little in the SS films he's done.
In fairness Seagal isn't the only actor known for putting in little effort. There are others known for just staying in their trailer and only coming out for their master shots and letting the double do the rest. Or being on the shoot for the bare minimum they can get away with. Wesley Snipes is known for that in some of his films, either when he takes a dislike to the director or the film itself (Blade 3) or some when he's just there for the money (most of his DTV work). He'll come for 2 weeks out of a 3 week shoot say, and do masters, little or none of the coverage, and often won't do the ADR.
It's not always entirely these guys. Sometimes the producers will work a deal in which the actor is there for as little time as needed, and then they don't have to pay as much as if they're there the for the entire shoot. Seagal puts little effort in, but in part it may be a symptom of having worked on these movies for too long. There's a big difference even from Into The Sun and Belly Of The Beast, to what he's been doing in the last couple of years when you think of how SS comes across on screen. The enthusiasm has completely gone, but if the producers aren't giving him any reason to be, or are seemingly happy for him to carry on as he is, then nothing will change. The sad fact is, Seagal can turn up, shoot his close ups and probably all told amount to about 15 minutes of actual Seagal screen-time as lead in a 90 minute picture and the producers firmly believe it's a sellable picture.
Seagy isn't alone. Over the last few years JCVD, Dolph, for example have had periods of being really fed up with the standard of their movies. The acted with more professionalism granted, but they've been burned. The difference though, is they made a concerted effort to alter things. They took good opportunities that Sly gave them, and made interesting decisions.
But still, in some respects I understand why Seagal has got to this point. I don't condone his behaviour but that he no longer seems at all interested in his film career is not much of a surprise.
If Seagal really wanted he could get Under Siege 3 off the ground. Someone, somewhere would make it. DTV it would sell twice as many copies as just a standard Seagal picture, because it's part of a known, more established franchise. Or Prince Of Pistols. That had an interesting concept but never came off the ground.
That said, when it comes down to it, there's one overriding factor against all these career turnaround arguments. Seagal is in his 60's now. Granted Sly and Arnie both came back in their 60's, but they always had more star power, more acting ability and have stayed in good shape (particularly Sly) but the interest in them is waning. Aside from any of their franchise stuff, they're not gonna do big business on the big screen. The Expendables will run out of steam after the third film. It won't sustain interest. The novelty of these guys, doing these things at their age is wearing off. I hate saying it, but in 2-3 years there'll be little interest left in these guys except for fans nostalgia.
 
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