Did the unthinkable (my Aikido journey)

TDWoj

Administrator
Staff member
ad_adrian said:
i remember gumby
and his friends color was...like orange but i forget his name
his friend was a horse

Well done, Adrian! I'll just wait a bit and see if someone comes up with the name - no cheating!

Okay, now I'm not feeling so old....
 

TDWoj

Administrator
Staff member
On the elevator in my building after aikido class today, I ran into a neighbour (the guy who's been playing his music full blast since he moved in, and finally, after repeated requests by pretty much everyone on the floor, he's finally stopped). I mentioned that I was taking aikido, "You know, the one Steven Seagal does in his movies."

"Oh, yeah," he said, with a slight smirk. "That's a pretty passive martial art, isn't it?"

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This, as you can imagine, didn't sit too well with me, having just come from a class where we spent the best part of an hour doing nikkyo.

Passive, sez he! I should have showed him my bruises. Or better still, demo'd nikkyo on him (though I recall my Sensei saying that nikkyo was NOT a party trick, to be used against those who don't know how to react to it).

I get the impression sometimes that aikido as an art is not taken terribly seriously by practitioners of other disciplines.

Anyway, I just said to him, calmly, that aikido was defensive, rather than passive. I should have added, that it involved a lot of skill in NOT breaking your opponent's arms or other body parts, but by that time he'd reached his door and gone inside.

Passive, indeed.

Ow.
 

ad_adrian

Twitter: adadrian
people that say that do not understand the art of aikido,
people say there is no punching or you cant attack in aikido...well yes you can...you do a strike to the head they will naturally block it..then you have their arm and can do a technique on them....
we train to punch in the stomach...chest...weak spots on the body with the side of hands...close fist or tips of fingers....aikido can be aggressive if it needs to be
 

GlimmerMan

Huge Member
You should have yanked him back out of his apartment, thrown him through a few walls, gouged his eyes out and then hurled him down the lift shaft.
 

TDWoj

Administrator
Staff member
ad_adrian said:
people that say that do not understand the art of aikido,
people say there is no punching or you cant attack in aikido...well yes you can...you do a strike to the head they will naturally block it..then you have their arm and can do a technique on them....
we train to punch in the stomach...chest...weak spots on the body with the side of hands...close fist or tips of fingers....aikido can be aggressive if it needs to be

Even the defensive techniques can be pretty damned aggressive. I think because it looks so fluid when the expert practitioners do it, that others don't realise what a real science it is.

We had a lesson on the weekend by a "sub" sensei (our Sensei is in BC right now for a one week training camp with the grandson of O Sensei. I tremble to think of the techniques she's going to be bringing back with her) about finding the radial nerve and using it to advantage.

Aikido looks "soft" and "passive" because it uses the laws of physics and the attacker's energy and own anatomy against him, because it doesn't require brute force to get the bad guy down.
 

TDWoj

Administrator
Staff member
GlimmerMan said:
You should have yanked him back out of his apartment, thrown him through a few walls, gouged his eyes out and then hurled him down the lift shaft.

The thought did cross my mind... we even have a lift that's out of service at the moment.

Nikkyo would have been sufficient as an object lesson, though, I think.
 
Aikido is not passive, on the contrary - it is the very expression of activity, involving the entirety of your being, which in other martial arts is seldom the case. (For instance, in other arts one technique or another involves a hand, a leg or one arm at a time, but in Aikido each and every technique involves all of your body, as it is centered in hara. Moreover, Aikido does not only require your physical presence, but the spiritual one also. What this means is, Aikido is a total art, involving your entire being, as I was saying.) The only difference is, in Aikido your energy is - generally speaking - supposed to never go against that of anyone or anything whatsoever. And that's why it is called a creative martial art (TakeMusu Aiki), because you're supposed to deal with situations you encounter in a creative way. For instance, if you see a tree falling and you step aside, that's Aikido. If you see a tree about to fall down on somebody else and you run over there and save the one from being crashed by the tree, that's aikido. If you have a stubborn employee and manage to deal with him and make him understand one thing or another, that's aikido. If you got a lemon and you make a lemonade, that's aikido. Of course, all of these situations require you to be more than active! But not in a destructive way, that's the essence here. Energies never collide, they embrace each other if I may say so. ;)

P.S. Ideally, that is. :D
 
TDWoj said:
The thought did cross my mind... we even have a lift that's out of service at the moment.

Nikkyo would have been sufficient as an object lesson, though, I think.

If you get angry and start the fight, you have already lost. Because you have lost your composure and you are not in control anymore. There is no attack in Aikido. Let them say whatever they want to, "vultur non capit muscas", you know.

;)
 

TDWoj

Administrator
Staff member
scotch.on.the.rocks said:
If you get angry and start the fight, you have already lost. Because you have lost your composure and you are not in control anymore. There is no attack in Aikido. Let them say whatever they want to, "vultur non capit muscas", you know.

;)

Well, that's why I didn't do anything, nor would I even have tried; just tried to explain to him there was a difference between "passive" and "defensive". I don't think he bought it, though.
 
TDWoj said:
Well, that's why I didn't do anything, nor would I even have tried; just tried to explain to him there was a difference between "passive" and "defensive". I don't think he bought it, though.

If I were to push the envelope here, I would say Aikido it's not even defensive - that's also ugly. This very idea involves a situation where you're standing here, the attacker is over there and tries to hurt you and then you DEFENSE yourself. There is no such thing in Aikido, really! You're not supposed to look at the partner as an oponent at all, he's just a guy doing something there - assuming he is willing to harm you is already evil in YOUR mind. Maybe he's hunting flies, how the heck should I know!? Maybe he wants to get some place and I just happen to be standing in his way, doesn't make any difference. Point is, you shouldn't just be standing there! By the time he reaches your space, you have to be already somewhere else - that's Aikido. Ma-ai, all the time. Ideally, you shouldn't even touch each other - you go your own way, he goes his. If two guys can't be friends, at least they shouldn't be enemies. Live and let live, brother! :cool:
 

TDWoj

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Ah - so all the technques I'm learning are pointless? That's good to know. Now I won't try so hard to learn forward rolls!
 
TDWoj said:
Ah - so all the technques I'm learning are pointless? That's good to know. Now I won't try so hard to learn forward rolls!

Lol... yeah, they're pretty pointless. :D

"The secret of Aikido does not lie in the way you move your feet, but in the way you move your mind", that's a quote from the Founder. ;)

Aikido is more - to me at least - about a certain vision on life - a Lebensphilosophie, a Weltanschauung, as the Germans say - not killing each other on the mat for no apparent reason.

If you have that, that's already more than enough - there's no need to try so hard, really. Guys tend to train harder because they have more aggresiveness inside and they need to express it one way or another. If you feel calm as you are, then don't do that!

You should go to the training hall smiling, relaxing, not frowning. Go there and do your stuff, but don't try so hard. You'll be closer to the end than you are now!

;)
 

TDWoj

Administrator
Staff member
I should tell our instructors about the "feet" quote. Right now we are concentrating on footwork because at the last testing, just about everyone's footwork was sloppy beyond belief - it's a wonder uke didn't take advantage and knock over nage (well, if it was any of the dan levels, uke probably would have - but then, the dan levels have very good footwork). Me, I have to consciously think about my feet because once they're out of my line of vision, I have no idea where they are - usually, they're in the wrong stance for executing the most economical moves to complete a technique.

There was a new guy in class on Monday. Talk about being aggressive - I've got his thumbprint on my forearm, and there it's likely to stay for at least a couple of weeks. It's a good thing I don't work in an office, or people would think I'm a battered woman, from all the bruises I get from the guys playing too rough!

I'm just going through one of those patches where I get frustrated at not learning the techniques well.
 

TDWoj

Administrator
Staff member
Ah, but that would go against harmony of the spirit, mind and body!

I'd rather just pitch it through the window (making sure nobody was walking past at that particular moment).

Anyway, he's quietened down now.
 

shihonage

New Member
scotch.on.the.rocks said:
Lol... yeah, they're pretty pointless. :D

I was with you regarding a proper mindset until this point. Aikido techniques are pointless ? Why, because we have no violence in this world ? We live in a time where people worry about letting their kids walk around the streets after sundown. The world is not becoming any less violent my friend. Presence of proper spirit AND technical ability is a very useful thing to have.

The world does not play by the rules of some pacifistic fantasy. We are mere mortals, flawed. We do not always see the attack coming, and we cannot always keep the distance or diffuse the situation with a smile.
Sometimes, it is just too late.

Aikido gives an individual an arsenal of empty-hand technique that can help them get out of a tight spot. Aikido is an art which also uses strikes, real or feigned, as a vital part of technique execution.

Aikido is not defense, Aikido is counterattack. This becomes painfully obvious if you actually get attacked by someone who knows what they're doing.
If the only exposure to attacks you've had was inside an Aikido dojo, then you've had NO EXPOSURE TO ATTACKS.
No ma-ai and smiling will save you if you do not take initiative and do everything to erase their clarity of mind. This will include hitting them and otherwise causing pain through means Aikido provides.

Steven Seagal understands this, which is why in his earlier films he was showing Aikido how it really looks in a violent confrontation. He attracted a lot of whining from Aikido community about his Aikido being "violent". The thing is, his Aikido is not violent. It is a perfect mirror of whatever comes his way. In his films he is dealing with violent attacks, which result in a violent outcome for the attacker. When dealing with beginners during a seminar, Seagal can be as gentle as the gentlest Aikido teacher you've ever seen.
 

TDWoj

Administrator
Staff member
shihonage said:
I was with you regarding a proper mindset until this point. Aikido techniques are pointless ? Why, because we have no violence in this world ? We live in a time where people worry about letting their kids walk around the streets after sundown. The world is not becoming any less violent my friend. Presence of proper spirit AND technical ability is a very useful thing to have.

The world does not play by the rules of some pacifistic fantasy. We are mere mortals, flawed. We do not always see the attack coming, and we cannot always keep the distance or diffuse the situation with a smile.
Sometimes, it is just too late.

Aikido gives an individual an arsenal of empty-hand technique that can help them get out of a tight spot. Aikido is an art which also uses strikes, real or feigned, as a vital part of technique execution.

Aikido is not defense, Aikido is counterattack. This becomes painfully obvious if you actually get attacked by someone who knows what they're doing.
If the only exposure to attacks you've had was inside an Aikido dojo, then you've had NO EXPOSURE TO ATTACKS.
No ma-ai and smiling will save you if you do not take initiative and do everything to erase their clarity of mind. This will include hitting them and otherwise causing pain through means Aikido provides.

Steven Seagal understands this, which is why in his earlier films he was showing Aikido how it really looks in a violent confrontation. He attracted a lot of whining from Aikido community about his Aikido being "violent". The thing is, his Aikido is not violent. It is a perfect mirror of whatever comes his way. In his films he is dealing with violent attacks, which result in a violent outcome for the attacker. When dealing with beginners during a seminar, Seagal can be as gentle as the gentlest Aikido teacher you've ever seen.

"Pull your pants up again and I'll hit you myself!" - Steven Seagal, from Path Beyond Thought

Very gentle, indeed! :D :D :D :D

Counterattack I think is better description than defensive, because you are using your attacker's energy against him. Of course, one doesn't go looking for a fight just to show off one's aikido techniques - that'll get you into trouble pretty quick. But from my perspective - first of all, I'm a woman. Secondly, I'm five foot nothing. Some bad guy is going to think I'm easy prey, and at the moment, I still am - because I still have to stop and think about what I'm doing.

Tonight in the second class, for example, we were working on responses to katatori. I still can't get nikkyo quite right (although the lads can certainly do a number on me pretty damned easily). I did, however, manage to do sankyo correctly, and that was only because I got to do it the extra painful method, on account of my hands being so little - that is, holding the fingers rather than the palm. They don't usually allow that because it really is very painful for uke, but I couldn't wrap my little hand around uke's big hand in the "gentler" position. My poor uke danced like a marionnette.

In a street situation, a bad guy might grab my shirt, or the upper arm. Nikkyo would be the correct response (I just can't seem to get the hang of it, though!). But it still isn't an instinctive response - I still have to think about it.

In other news, I signed up for the next round of testing, September 12th. May as well get it over with....
 

shihonage

New Member
TDWoj said:
In a street situation, a bad guy might grab my shirt, or the upper arm. Nikkyo would be the correct response (I just can't seem to get the hang of it, though!). But it still isn't an instinctive response - I still have to think about it.

The instinctive response will be the simplest one. The simplest response starts with footwork and posture.
With a certain amount of Aikido training, your body should eventually get used to being in a balanced posture, outside of the dojo, every day. It would also get a simple footwork response, without you even being able to assess the nature of attack, just the direction of it. These two, combined, will play a crucial role in whether you succeed.

You see, a real attacker doesn't just grab passively and stand there. They have a goal. They grab aggressively, quickly, and their goal is often to punch you in the face with their other hand.

As you step back with the same side as you felt grabbed, matching attacker's speed, he will lose his balance. Simultaneously, your other side's hand shoots into the space where his face may or may not be, as it goes across your chest to get his hand. The immediate loss of balance and atemi (which may or may not glance his face), should make his strike miss, and buy you a moment necessary to turn back and lock him with nikkyo. At this point you may also strike with the grabbed-side hand as you turn back into him.

But... if your posture is crooked forward from the start, you stand a higher chance of being taken off-balance by the initial grab, and, since your head is naturally protruding forward, it is also easier for him to reach your face. Hence the erect posture that Aikido teaches. It's techniques are designed to keep you out of harm's way, and posture and footwork are the foundation.

"The secret of Aikido is in the way that I stand before you" - Steven Seagal
 

TDWoj

Administrator
Staff member
I got some of the fellows a little worried one day when we were practicing attacks. They're such tall fellows, you see, and I'm just a little squirt, that my fist just naturally went to the crotch, because it was closer than the face. My, but didn't they try to jump smartly out of the way! :D :D

You go where the blow makes the most sense, I guess!

Knees are a good place to kick out, too.

The one thing my instructors have said about my technique is that I generally have a good, solid stance. When we do tenkan practice, for example, I'm always getting the guys seriously off balance, whereas they have more trouble doing that to me because I'm lower to the ground than they are, and I tend to take root.
 
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