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I really like Gene LeBell. He's such a fun guy.

#1
I think most of you guys here have already watched the most recent interview of Gene LeBell talking about his incident with Sensei Seagal that has been sewed around for quite a long time.



Gene LeBell again still has not given us a clear answer as to whether the story really happened.

But one thing we noticed is that he has opened up a bit this time by hinting to us that there is a gag
order preventing him from talking about that story publicly or leagl action would be taken against him.

There are however a few things which don't really make sense to me.

1) if Sensei challenged Gene by asking Gene to test whether he can choke him out, Gene kindly accepted his offer and choked him out with many other people witnessing the whole process, but now Sensei is telling the public a different story whilst calling Gene a pathological liar to retain his image of a martial artist with fighting prowess, then why the law is not protecting Gene but protecting Sensei who can continue to defame Gene by lying about it?

2) Gene LeBell said, in his previous interview with Helwani in MMA hour, there were 30 people watching when the incident happened. So, why can't he just give the names of a few people who he claimed to be the witnesses like Sensei Seagal did?


3) If a gag order is really placed against people talking about that story, why are there so many internet articles still talking about it but none of the writters is known to be sued for this matter?


Please feel welcome to give your opinion!
 

Administrator

Administrator
Staff member
#2
Good point, if there were 30 witnesses you would think more people would have told their side of the story.

The sad thing is in the past Steven Seagal there have been many rumours and strange stories, that sometimes we don't know what is fact and what is fiction.

Personally it makes no difference to myself if he was choked out by another martial artist.
 
#3
I own a movie magazine from 1991 called "Prevue". In this magazine is an article on the Seagal/LeBell incident. So it came out directly after the filming of "Out for Justice".

Let´s give you some straight answers. Lots of Martial Artist claimed that Gene LeBell told them privately that he choked out Seagal. He never ever admit that publicly because allegedly he mustn´t otherwise he got trouble from court.

To this day, I really don´t know whether it really happened because at first Diana Inosanto the daughter of Daniel Inosanto(palyed Sticks in Out for Justice) said that both Seagal and LeBell are family friends so it´s a delicate matter to talk about that.
She said(you can watch it on youtube) that she talked about the incident with the stuntmen and she said that there was according to the stuntmen only a verbal confrontation and no fight.

Secondly, Steven Seagal said in the MMA hour with Ariel Helwani that everybody can ask stunt coordinator Conrad Palmisano about the incident and he would never lie to anybody because Conrad P. is a Vietnam veteran and a honest man/man of honr.
So why should Seagal offer to ask Conrad Palmisano who was the stunt coordinator of "Out for Justice", when he was choked out?

Somehow I doubt it that Seagal was choked out and somehow not. It´s hard to explain because you can "read between the lines" that according to LeBell he indeed choked Seagal out.

If Seagal were really choken out it´s not that embarrassing because to the rumors Seagal allowed the choke on him and I can tell him if someone allowed a guy like LeBell a choke that everybody will be choke out.

Conclusion: I really don´t know what really happened on the "Out for Justice" movie set but it seems to me that Seagal treated the stuntmen very bad and LeBell got it and told him to have more respect towards that stuntmen community. Seagal at the time a big movie star had obviously a big mouth that nobody can choke him out and LeBell tried it and was pretty sucessful.

Normally there´s a rule in the movie world: What happens on a movie set, stays on a movie set. But maybe some stuntmen hated Seagal so hard because of his often cocky behavior that the story directly went to a magazine(Prevue) and the gratefully have a great story!
 
#4
I would like to say something else.

Randy Couture said that he only would come back from retirement if he fought Seagal but everybody could see that Couture wasn´t serious about that. He was only kidding.

Ariel Helwani the clever guy, spoke about it on the last MMA hour with Seagal and pretend that Couture was serious about the challenge and Seagal fall into the trap and replied: I thought that Randy was my friend and it´s strange that he challenged me and that he has no problems to fight him but it must be in a remote area without rules. He would never fight with witnesses and under rules.

Seagal made himself ridiculous. The whole world is laughing at him because of his statement. What to fight with a guy who was a former MMA Worldchampion(heavyweight) in a remote area under no rules.

Everybody knows that Seagal is over 60 years old and 40-50 pounds overweighted. Despite everybody knows that Seagal has no ground game. If Couture gets him on the ground what will Seagal do?

Look at the fight in which Couture fought against a boxer(James Toney). After 15 seconds Couture grabbed the boxer by his leg, got him on the ground and choked him out.

Seagal would only have a chance if he doesn´t go to the ground because he is no Brazilian Jiu-Juitsu guy. But believe me you can get to the ground very very easy and then???????
 
#5
Thank for that! I never knew there was such magazine back in 1991. I'd need to find that and look it up.

But all other sources that talk about the incident are posted by unknown people who are not the witnesses but just recounting what they have heard from others.

So far, I still don't see anyone who publicly confirmed the incident had really happned by clariflying that he/she was a witness of it. There might be some legal issues involved, but I doubt whether the law here in the U.S. would prevent people talking the truth behind an incident simply for protecting an actor's image.

Also, if Seagal really got choked out unconciously and found he shitted under his pant after he woke up, why nobody would call an ambulance or a doctor to attend the location immediately while Seagal was unconcious? In that case, the incident should have been widely reported, it's not even something they can hide from the public easily.
 
#6
To be perfectly honest I think the whole thing is a load of rubbish. I would go with Steven Seagal's assumption that Gene Lebell is just a bitter old man and a habitual liar. I would imagine that Gene is just butt hurt about something that happened or about something SS said.

I would say, however, that I get the impression that SS has been somewhat unfair with people and maybe it would be in his best interest to not put people down. The thing is though, there is not really much point in just trying to throw this stuff back at Steven. Steven is obviously a master of his art and probably one of the most proficient martial artists ever. Fighting fire by throwing gasoline at it is a bit futile.

I doubt that there are many people in the world who could beat SS in a fight... he knows that. I think that he should not put people down though. For example, maybe he is a greater fighter than the likes of JCVD, but maybe he should have kept that to himself as opposed to saying it in an interview (it still made me giggle though).

All that said, I would still like to meet SS. I am a big fan.
 
#7
I would like to say something else.

Randy Couture said that he only would come back from retirement if he fought Seagal but everybody could see that Couture wasn´t serious about that. He was only kidding.

Ariel Helwani the clever guy, spoke about it on the last MMA hour with Seagal and pretend that Couture was serious about the challenge and Seagal fall into the trap and replied: I thought that Randy was my friend and it´s strange that he challenged me and that he has no problems to fight him but it must be in a remote area without rules. He would never fight with witnesses and under rules.

Seagal made himself ridiculous. The whole world is laughing at him because of his statement. What to fight with a guy who was a former MMA Worldchampion(heavyweight) in a remote area under no rules.

Everybody knows that Seagal is over 60 years old and 40-50 pounds overweighted. Despite everybody knows that Seagal has no ground game. If Couture gets him on the ground what will Seagal do?

Look at the fight in which Couture fought against a boxer(James Toney). After 15 seconds Couture grabbed the boxer by his leg, got him on the ground and choked him out.

Seagal would only have a chance if he doesn´t go to the ground because he is no Brazilian Jiu-Juitsu guy. But believe me you can get to the ground very very easy and then???????
In all honesty, I get the impression that you don't know much about martial arts masters. I would be astounded if someone like Randy could do any harm to SS let alone knock him down! I would keep an open mind though. No one is invincible and SS is no exception... that is the whole reason why we should all avoid fights.

What has age or weight got to do with any of this? SS is a martial arts master, not a sportsman. He seems in perfectly good enough health to me. He could lose some weight for the sake of his general overall health but I don't see how that has anything to do with his fighting prowess.

Edit: I just noticed I wrote invisible instead of invincible :p... corrected.
 
#8
Cheesus Toast: You can´t be serious.....-really.
Do you want to tell me that stamina has nothing to do in a fight. Do you want to tell me that a overweighted guy can fight better than a not overweighted guy?

Martial Arts master back and forth but the truth is that Seagal was never a fighter. On the contrary Randy Couture was. That is a difference.

A lot of people also think for example that Chuck Norris wasn´t a real fighter because Chuck only fought on points and never full contact. Chuck Norris was a world chapion point fighter-that´s a fact!

I think that Steven Seagal though I love him stretched his own stories in order to his superhero image.

Stories like working for the CIA etc....- I think he does a lot of due to pubicity.

Do you really think that MMA fighters like Anderson Silva and Lyoto Machida defeated guys to a special Steven Seagal kick?

Michael Jai White said that Seagal is great in his art(Aikido) but can´t throw a kick above the waist.

As I said I´m a huge Seagal fan but sometimes he acted very very strange. You Seagal fans know that´s a fact.

Lots of people say that he changed when the movie success came in but other people like Sharon Stone or Pam Grier said in an interview that Seagal was already "an asshole" on the set of his first movie "Above the Law"!
 
#9
I'm with you on this one Seagal 1969. Personally I'm a bit saddened by all the trash Seagal has said over the years. Why does he constantly has to put down Van Damme, Norris and now Michael Jai White? Is there some serious issues of self esteem behind all this or is he really that insecure of his own status as an martial artist/action star? I am not a fan of JCVD, but I have to give him cudos for being a good sport in all those interviews where he basically laughs off Seagal's slanderings. Same with Norris.
I'm genuinly interested in understanding the very root reason for Seagal's bullyish behaviour. I mean the guy has been there, done that and got the friggin' t-shirt: one would think that that kind of experience in life (and martial arts especially) would make you the bigger man - the very Sensei he wishes to be addressed.

As for the hypothetical Couture vs. Seagal fight - well, all I have to say is that there is a darn good reason why 99% of the MMA guys are in the shape that they are. It takes a HUGE amount of stamina to wrestle and/or to keep up with an opponent who's got both the kicker-puncher and the ground player. Sure Seagal is fast for a man his size and age, but to maintain that level of energy for even a couple of minutes... Well, we'll never know the outcome of that fight, that's for sure. Seagal has never took up any of the challenges he's given but has been quick to bad mouth the challengers. Hope he doesn't burn the bridge to Couture as well.
 
#10
Tommy Boy: Exactly....

I´ve never been a van Damme fan because to me he´s more a "ballet dancer" than a tough guy. He´s Martial Arts weren´t as realistic and entertaining when he first came out than Seagal´s but you have to show respect to van Damme because he left his home country Belgium in order to become a movie star. I think that deserves respect.

In 1991 Seagal was asked on the Arsenio Hall show what he thinks about van Damme and his behavior was cocky to say at least.

Why didn´t he say: "I´m not a huge fan of van Damme because I don´t like his fighting style on the screen because it´s not so realistic. But I must give the guy some respect because he came from Europe with no English knowledges and try to make it in this town and for that he has my respect because I did the same for the Martial Arts when I left at the time the USA and went to Japan to learn the Martial Arts.

If he said that, then it would be O.K. and not sounded so arrogant.

To Seagal´s shape: If a guy like Michael Jai White says that Seagal is no real Martial Artist because he´s so overweighted, then I have to agree to a certain point with him. Look at Chuck Norris. He will turn 73 years in a couple of weeks and the guy is in great shape because he trains permanently.

By the way, in a few days I´ll get all Steven Seagal´s appearances at the Arsenio Hall Show.

In 1990 he had been there twice to promote his movies "Hard to Kill" and Marked for Death. When he promoted "Hard to Kill" he was on the Arsenio Hall show with his former wife Kelly LeBrock.

I also will get his October 1992 appearance when he was there to promote "Under Siege".

I don´t know how to put them on youtube or here but if I find that out, then I promise I´ll download his Talk Show appearances for you all!!!!!!!

You won´t find these appearances on the internet and I paid 15 dollars for each show but I´m a huge fan and I want that rare stuff!
 
#11
First off: I'm already looking forward to those Arsenio Hall Show-clips! I've been searching for those myself for ages. Great news! Do you know in what video format will you be getting them? Uploading them in YouTube shouldn't be too difficult - hope there isn't any copyright issues to deal with. Keep us posted!

I wonder if that (the 1991 appearance on Arsenio) was the beginning of the feud between Seagal and Van Damme? I guess maybe Seagal felt threatened by this younger new-comer who was, at the time, signing contracts with major studios. In that same interview Seagal talks about Jeff Speakman, but in a positive note. Coincidence or not, Speakman's career went pretty much to toilet after Perfect Weapon thus never making him a contender for Seagal at the box office...

Forgive me for digressing a bit: I too am not that impressed with Van Damme's martial arts in films - mainly because of the unimaginitive choreography in his fight scenes. Apart from No Retreat, No Surrender JCVD:s fights are pretty dull and lack elasticity. Many times (Timecop, Bloodsport and Death Warrant come to mind) it seems that Van Damme has difficulties in executing sophisticated choreography and is comfortable only in his one-punch/one-kick-then-pause-for-posing-and-flexing-muscles/displaying-his-ass -technique.
Now, while I wouldn't repeat Seagal's crass and unfounded comments on Van Damme ("He never did the martial arts in his life, that I know of... Whoever says he's trained is an c*cksucker and an a**hole." -direct quote from a Seagal interview in Hustler in 2010), I would say that the action scenes in Seagal's films are by far more interesting to watch - mostly because of the versatility.

It's a funny thing being a Seagal-fan: I haven't had any other idol in my life so controversial. At times it's almost like being in a dysfunctional friendship: every once and for while you really get fed up with your friend's lies and downright a**holish behaviour, but then you forget all that and focus on the good things :)
 
#12
I´ll get the Arsenio Hall Shows on DVD-R. I won´t get Steven Seagal´s last appearance on the Arsenio Hall show when he promoted "On Deadly Ground" in a couple of days but I´m confident that I´ll get it in a couple of months from the same guy.

I will also get the 1992 Seagal appearance on the Tonight Show with Jay Leno when he promoted his blockbuster "Under Siege". There was once and probably still is a clip from this show when the Hard Rock band "The Ramones" was there too. You could see the clip when they were performing and when they were shaking hands with Seagal before they did an interview with Jay Leno.

Seagal looked a little bit confused when Jay Leno said that "The Ramones" looked like Seagal. But Jay was only kidding.

I will also get in a couple of days the 1994 Seagal appearance on the David Letterman show when he promoted "On Deadly Ground". I´m confident that I´ll get his 1997 appearance on the Letterman(to promote "Fire Down Below") in a couple of months as well.

I already have Seagal´´s 1995 appearance on the Jay Leno Tonight show but I have it on a VHS cassette. I don´t know how to post them on youtube but that was a great funny Seagal appearance.


Back to the Seagal topic. I can tell you why he liked Jeff Speakman more than van Damme. The reason for that is that he was good friend with Jeff Speakman´s trainer the legendary Ed Parker.
Ed Parker invented Kenpo Karate. He was really a tough guy and even a bodyguard in Elvis Presley´s last year of life.
Seagal respected Ed Parker and Speakman was a student of Parker. That was the reason why he prefered Speakman over van Damme.
 
#13
I stand by what I said.

With regards to competing in a sports like match with rules and scoring I do not know how Steven would fair. He just does not come across to me as a sportsman. I would imagine that that is the reason why Steven would want a no rules match.

Aikido is not a sport (at least as far as the general definition of sports goes), it is an art meant for real combat; for taking out your opponent(s) in the most shortest (efficient) amount of time as possible. It is similar in that aspect to the likes of Wing Chun. I would be surprised if someone of Steven's calibre let a fight reach a point where stamina was needed if there was just one opponent.

Don't forget that I have also mentioned that I am not overly happy with the way Steven has a tendency to bad mouth people. I also believe that it would be in Steven's interest to get in better shape but that is for him to judge.
 
#14
I forgot to mention... I agree that Steven Seagal is somewhat enigmatic and does not seem to have the same kind of humour as some people. I would be wary of joking with him, put it that way. What Randy said about coming out of retirement to fight Steven was probably a joke, it is just a joke that would maybe best not have been said.

I know Steven jokes about people but I just would not say a joke about him, if you know what I mean. Maybe what I am saying is that he kind of scares me in a manner of speaking. I find it somewhat difficult to work out how he thinks.
 
#15
With all due respect Cheesus Toast, aikido is not an martial art meant for real combat. I have studied aikido for twenty one years and love it from the bottom of my heart, but if you are talking about a martial art which is "meant for taking out your opponent(s) in the most shortest (efficient) amount of time as possible", you are not talking about aikido (Way of the harmonious spirit). No-nonsense arts like kali escrima, krav maga or jeet kune do, for instance, fit that description perfectly.

Having said that, there are many disciplines within the aikido-community with eminently different views on how to practice aiki. Some teachers prefer to emphasise the soft, meditative and almost yoga-like harmony which is aikido's very core.
Then there are heaps of teachers who want to cut all the crap and distill the techniques into extreme efficiency. It is a well known fact that Seagal spent his life in developing his style into a very practical, "street level" of aikido. He has also incorporated techniques from tai chi, karate and kung fu into his mix, so at times his style of fighting is quite far from traditional aikido. And there's nothing wrong with that.
Now I agree with you totally on that Seagal would propably (in a real fight) find the shortest possible way to take down his opponent and would not "dance around" in the ring (or octagon for that matter). With your average mugger as an opponent that is no problem, but veteran fighters - real tough guys like Randy are no slouches.

I too find it difficult to understand Seagal's musings at times. He is an enigma wrapped in a riddle and it would be fascinating to one day get all the facts straight about his past in the orient.
What sometimes bothers me, is that he really wouldn't need to BS at all: he is a buddhist who has lived an amazing life, achieved truly inspirational merits in the martial arts community and displayed exeptional generosity in philantrophy. Why must he still boost his ego with reckless comments about his colleagues and fellow martial artists?
 

rastafari

Well-Known Member
#16
Cheesus Toast: You can´t be serious.....-really.
Do you want to tell me that stamina has nothing to do in a fight. Do you want to tell me that a overweighted guy can fight better than a not overweighted guy?

Martial Arts master back and forth but the truth is that Seagal was never a fighter. On the contrary Randy Couture was. That is a difference.

A lot of people also think for example that Chuck Norris wasn´t a real fighter because Chuck only fought on points and never full contact. Chuck Norris was a world chapion point fighter-that´s a fact!

I think that Steven Seagal though I love him stretched his own stories in order to his superhero image.

Stories like working for the CIA etc....- I think he does a lot of due to pubicity.

Do you really think that MMA fighters like Anderson Silva and Lyoto Machida defeated guys to a special Steven Seagal kick?

Michael Jai White said that Seagal is great in his art(Aikido) but can´t throw a kick above the waist.

As I said I´m a huge Seagal fan but sometimes he acted very very strange. You Seagal fans know that´s a fact.

Lots of people say that he changed when the movie success came in but other people like Sharon Stone or Pam Grier said in an interview that Seagal was already "an asshole" on the set of his first movie "Above the Law"!
sharon stone hated him but pam grier said that when she had cancer in 1989 steven seagal was one of only 3 people to visit her and she said in an interview how much it meant to her that he did
 

rastafari

Well-Known Member
#17
In 1988 the C-word meant: 'Oh my God, you're going to die. There is no hope.' You learn who your friends are when you have cancer." The friends who did come forward, she says, weren't the ones she was expecting. "Those that came to my bedside were Steven Seagal, Carl Gottlieb, my mentor, and the president of the Writers Guild and film director Tamar Hoff. They were truly amazing. But a lot of people couldn't cope and just fell away."

from pam grier
 
#19
sharon stone hated him but pam grier said that when she had cancer in 1989 steven seagal was one of only 3 people to visit her and she said in an interview how much it meant to her that he did

Really?
I´ve never heard this story before.
Do you have any link as a proof?:)))