kemi....

[jono_1uk]

I have just watched my new "path beyond thought" DVD and have a question.
when segal is performing his "randori " techniques, some of his opponents appear to go to the ground and roll without hardly be touched or thrown be Steven.
i know that an integeral part of Aikido training is to learn to fall properly but to me some of it appears " exagerated"
anybody else notice this ?

 

[suziwong]

I have just watched my new "path beyond thought" DVD and have a question.
when segal is performing his "randori " techniques, some of his opponents appear to go to the ground and roll without hardly be touched or thrown be Steven.
i know that an integeral part of Aikido training is to learn to fall properly but to me some of it appears " exagerated"
anybody else notice this ?

Please, His surname is spelling SEAGAL not SEGAL..

suzi

 

[reno77]

kemi

Kemi:
You are correct about the "randori" techniques in the Path Beyond Thought looking "exaggerated" (For me, I am specifically referring to the exhibiton I've seen taken at his outdooe camp). To me, it differed from the earlier Segal footage in terms of the execution of the technique looking powerful and with meaning. Everyone that has watched the video with me had the same impression - All of them Seagal fans.
What concerned me with the display of the Aikido techniques I've seen here in New York is this: the blackbelt used in the exhibition explained to me they(the blacbelts involved) willingly obliged the instructor to throw them so no injury would result in the display. The instructor was Yamada. I can see this to some degree( not using full force to demonstrate certain techniques) but there is something seriously misleading as well. I can see where people see "mystical" / "supernatural" powere emanating from the practitioner. I also have had students tell me of some serious techniques being utilized when attending one of Chiba's demonstrations in class which resulted in a dislocated bone. I would not discount the efficacy of the techniques employed. I assume it depends on the authentcity of the people involved.
With regards to the Seagal footage in question, I don't know any of the participants in the demonstration to say whether it was "legitimate' or not. I have had a co-worker who spoke to a professed Seagal student here in NY who states that Segal did employ powerful, no holding back techniques when he was studying with him.

 

[DRAGONKING]

I`m no expert on Aikido, but from what I have gathered from my years of practice is that after many, many years of practice, masters of the art do not use physical strength, but use expert timing, coordination, ki energy and breath power. The harder, more martial side of the art appears softer to the naked eye, but are still executed with much power. Also, it is the Way of Harmony. Students learn to blend with rather than resist technique, as resisting can bring serious harm to them. This may sometimes appear to be taking a fall without being thrown. All Aikido masters are different, depending on what they feel is most important in the art. Both Yamada sensei and Chiba sensei are outstanding masters, but are completely different in their approach and technique.
Seagal sensei has evolved over the years, and his Aikido has aswell. There is a technique called "Irimi nage"( entering throw), which looks like a clothes line. I know that his film fights are not real, but compare how he executes this technique in Above the Law, to how he does it in the bar room fight scene in Fire Down Below. The same technique, but done very differently. I hope this helps a little bit.

Best wishes to all,
DragonKing.

 

[charles]

Yes, as stated above Aikido masters do not really use force to throw opponents, but I wouldn't leave out the possibility that much of the video was staged, with "opponents" starting their roll slightly before being "thrown," just as one can often see an opponent "punching" in the direction they know the blow will be deflected to. The result is that even if the punch had not been blocked, it would not have met with the target anyway. Supposedly, the "demonstration" of Aikido that Seagal gave to film producers, and which help land him the role in "Above the Law," was entirely staged and well-rehearsed.

 

[jono_1uk]

cheers Guys !!

Soz about the spelling typo Suzi !!

 

[Drunken Master]

response...

I know exactly what you mean kemi....
Though I have never trained in Aikido specifically, I have trained in Hapkido and also in a lineage art with my grandmaster in Korea that has a lot of similarities with aikido. There are many moves or throws and joint locks in both of the styles that may visually seem like they are falling or rolling without being thrown powerfully. In actuality, a lot of it is simply flowing and "going with" the technique that is being done to you as to prevent injury from resistance. The techniques themselves when done powerfully and correctly can inflict serious damage to someone that cannot do this, i.e. breaking bones or joints, hence it is a necessity to learn to meld with the technique and flow with what is being done to you. Learning to fall naturally and not resist attacks is a very tough process and is very painful when you train on a wooden floor as in my case. The earlier part of my training with my grandmaster was spent doing countless hours of falling training whether being hit or thrown or hit with energy. I feel I can safely say that I can take a shot from just about any man alive and come away uninjured.... maybe a little sore because some people can definitely hit hard but not INJURED.