Martial arts for kids.
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Littledragon
Above The Law
You'd Think Today Most Martial Artists Would Get It.
It is absolutly absoluty astonishing that still Martial Artists are too stuborn to learn grappling. A good fighter/martial artist needs to be multi dimentional and know striking or how to fight standing up as well on the ground. If the UFC or Pride didn't prove anything or streetfights that end up 95% of the time on the ground, I don't know what will.
Aikilove said:
It is absolutly absoluty astonishing that still Martial Artists are too stuborn to learn grappling. A good fighter/martial artist needs to be multi dimentional and know striking or how to fight standing up as well on the ground. If the UFC or Pride didn't prove anything or streetfights that end up 95% of the time on the ground, I don't know what will.
Littledragon
Above The Law
Aikilove said:
Here is a great quote Bruce Lee once said, "If any style teaches you a method of fighting, then you might be able to fight according to the limit of that method, but that is not fighting."
You must empty your mind, be willing to learn, be willing to adapt, be willing to be free.
I don't expect you or anyone else to understand why we do the things we do in aikido and why we are able to defend ourself because of that training... but since I have tried to explain it here in this forum Little, I will not dwell more on that, unless a more educated and previously unanswered question is given about the subject.
/J
/J
Littledragon
Above The Law
Aikilove said:
Aikilove maybe you did not read the quote clearly enough:
"If any style teaches you a method of fighting, then you might be able to fight according to the limit of that method, but that is not fighting."
I respect your passion for Aikido but no one style has it all.
Littledragon
Above The Law
As A Martial Artists Aikilove You Are Cheating Your Own Self!!
Thats great you read it, now try to understand the concept through other philosophies of Martial Arts/Fighting.
Aikilove said:
Thats great you read it, now try to understand the concept through other philosophies of Martial Arts/Fighting.
tenshinaikidoka
Martial Art Student
Well, as a martial artist for 21 years of my life, I can say, I think that Aikilove has an understanding Little. I think however you are missing the bigger picture. I know you are young and enthusiastic. I totally respect that and I respect you as a martial artist. But, you keep saying the same things over and over and also attempt to display this "knowledge" which we have said time and time again, doesn't necessarily apply to all people. Grappling is great, however it is not the end all be all of a fight. I have studied the arts of grappling, and I can tell you, if you have spent any time in Aikido and understand the techniques and philosophy, then you can avoid going to the ground. That is a fact and that is reality. Is Aikido the end all be all, for me, yes, having studied Shotokan Karate, Tae Kwon Do, Judo, Brazilian Juijitsu, Jeet Kune DO Concepts, shootfighting and Aiido, I think Aikido for me, has the answers which I sought for so long and failed to get from my other arts. I hold dan ranks in all the arts I studied (with the exception of Brazilian Juijitsu and I do not hold any certificates in JKD).
Aikido is a wonderful art, and I respect all arts and thier place in the spectrum, but for alot of us, Aikido will work just fine in a streetfight. The only person going to the ground will be the person attacking me. And I have been tackeld many times during the course of my police career, and I have yet to go to the ground because I am fully aware of my surroundings and I controled the situation.
So, please Little, enough with the 95% facts on groundfighting and enough of the fighting amongst other martial artists in the forum, I have much respect for them and although I do not know them personally, I consider them friends and family due to our bond in the arts as a whole (regardless of style).
There, my peace is said!!!!
Aikido is a wonderful art, and I respect all arts and thier place in the spectrum, but for alot of us, Aikido will work just fine in a streetfight. The only person going to the ground will be the person attacking me. And I have been tackeld many times during the course of my police career, and I have yet to go to the ground because I am fully aware of my surroundings and I controled the situation.
So, please Little, enough with the 95% facts on groundfighting and enough of the fighting amongst other martial artists in the forum, I have much respect for them and although I do not know them personally, I consider them friends and family due to our bond in the arts as a whole (regardless of style).
There, my peace is said!!!!
Littledragon
Above The Law
tenshinaikidoka said:
Thats fantastic that you have cross trained in different Martial Arts, that does not categorize you in the one dimentional Martial Artists.
But however I will not drop the 95% of all fights end up on the ground fact because it is true. I have two uncles as a police officers and they all agreed saying that is true, as a matter of fact in 1993 Black Belt magazine printed that statistic and got the information from Police Department studies. My unlce is a Police Officer in Seattle and he was named police officer of the year in all of Washington, his name is Patrick and he is chinese. If you have ever seen a street fight between two brawlers, thugs, or whatever, the reason why the end up in the groun 95% of the time is simply because one guy will "rock" the other by punching him in the face and the guy stumbles down. However maybe you think of it as someone doing a wrestling take down and having a Jiu-Jitsu fight on the ground, that is not the case, the case is a bunch of thugs brawling with eachother and throwing punches and the other guy is getting wacked in the face and falls down. Thats why the statistic is correct. Like I said I have twon unlces in the Police Department, one in SEATLLE and one in BALTIMORE.
Peace
tenshinaikidoka
Martial Art Student
Ok, well, I have said my peace, I do disagree with the so called "stats" and I am from Washington state as well, south of Seattle near Puyallup. But, to each his own. But from my perspective, the only ones that try to sell those "stats" are those that try to get enrollemnt for the Jiujitsu schools. This is my perception though, and probably not everyones. But I do comend you for your dedication and enthusiasm.
tenshinaikidoka
Martial Art Student
I am curious though, why would a police department study if fights end up on the ground or not. As far as I know we only care about types of crimes and geographical locations for our stats. This lets us patrol those areas where crime is rampant and with the types of crimes we would be dealing with!!!
Littledragon
Above The Law
tenshinaikidoka said:
I knew about these statistics even when I was not a grappler and even when I was not too found of grappling but when I witness the street fights caught on tape everyone one of them ends on the ground because the guy is pounding the other guy on the face, if you get hit by a hard punch to the jaw you will most likely fall down, that is how the end to the ground.
Littledragon
Above The Law
tenshinaikidoka said:
Thats a good question, I will ask my uncle who is a Police Officer in Baltimore City and my uncle who was Police Officer of the year in Seattle Patrick Chang, have you heard of him Tenshin? Also I will ask Terry Treshuck a Police Chieg for Maryland.
Littledragon
Above The Law
Mason said:
Well at our school we have a little dragon's class having kids as young as 4, I think 4 is the minimum age for someone to start.
I started at 5.
yudansha
TheGreatOne
Again with the statistics!
Every statistician would certainly tell you that using stats that are not recent and validated is not useful and is regarded as junk in the scientific community. First, you base your opinion (let me state that it only IS your opinion and hence you stating what you 'think' is fact is plain and simple a myth all in its own) on what TWO people have told you and on the printout from 1993! 1993?!! Come on! How long ago was that? That would be the first thing you'd be put down on from a statistical point of view. Second, would be the data upon which that stitistic was gathered. Eleven years ago, there were no computerized methods as there are today. So, let me ask you how it is that such a data with such a high significant, numerical value can be proven valid when you have a sample size of close to 300 million people and no computational availability for you to generate such results? The Black Belt Magazine has an impact value of close to ZERO when it comes to scientific data of any sort! If you want to find real statistical data, you should be referring to mathematical journals (perhaps those with the emphasis on statistics). Hence, before you start claiming your 'facts' consider the fact that you are basically making a fool out of yourself by trying and enforce such suggestions onto the general public.
Little, don't even try to argue this. It would be a waste of your time. That is my recommendation to you.
And like Tenshinaikidoka has said numerous times, if you are looking for a martial art to help you with the defense techniques in today's world, you don't necessarily need to go to a school which would be teaching you a grappling art - BECAUSE, as a martial artist, you would learn successful methods of having your opponent not to get you into a vulnerable situation. Hence, an aikidoka would use his or her knowledge and abilities to refrain from ending up on the ground, and the attempts at doing so would render the opponent useless.
Having said that, I will tell you that grappling techniques do hold value within themselves. However, such techniques aren't the ultimate defense system in any case.
Moreover, there are quite 'modern' techniques ('modern' meaning that they were only recently introduced to the general public but in themselves have generations of use and improvement) that deal more closely with hand to hand combat in more specific situations in today's day and age. For example, the marines, and various other special ops. use 'Systema' as a training method. It was proven to be successful in SPECNAZ and is now taught to the devoted individuals willing to learn such a discipline. For more info, there is Google.
Every statistician would certainly tell you that using stats that are not recent and validated is not useful and is regarded as junk in the scientific community. First, you base your opinion (let me state that it only IS your opinion and hence you stating what you 'think' is fact is plain and simple a myth all in its own) on what TWO people have told you and on the printout from 1993! 1993?!! Come on! How long ago was that? That would be the first thing you'd be put down on from a statistical point of view. Second, would be the data upon which that stitistic was gathered. Eleven years ago, there were no computerized methods as there are today. So, let me ask you how it is that such a data with such a high significant, numerical value can be proven valid when you have a sample size of close to 300 million people and no computational availability for you to generate such results? The Black Belt Magazine has an impact value of close to ZERO when it comes to scientific data of any sort! If you want to find real statistical data, you should be referring to mathematical journals (perhaps those with the emphasis on statistics). Hence, before you start claiming your 'facts' consider the fact that you are basically making a fool out of yourself by trying and enforce such suggestions onto the general public.
Little, don't even try to argue this. It would be a waste of your time. That is my recommendation to you.
And like Tenshinaikidoka has said numerous times, if you are looking for a martial art to help you with the defense techniques in today's world, you don't necessarily need to go to a school which would be teaching you a grappling art - BECAUSE, as a martial artist, you would learn successful methods of having your opponent not to get you into a vulnerable situation. Hence, an aikidoka would use his or her knowledge and abilities to refrain from ending up on the ground, and the attempts at doing so would render the opponent useless.
Having said that, I will tell you that grappling techniques do hold value within themselves. However, such techniques aren't the ultimate defense system in any case.
Moreover, there are quite 'modern' techniques ('modern' meaning that they were only recently introduced to the general public but in themselves have generations of use and improvement) that deal more closely with hand to hand combat in more specific situations in today's day and age. For example, the marines, and various other special ops. use 'Systema' as a training method. It was proven to be successful in SPECNAZ and is now taught to the devoted individuals willing to learn such a discipline. For more info, there is Google.
jkorpel
New Member
In Aikido you are trained to not get taken to the ground, but statistics aside there is always a chance you can get taken to the ground regardless of your training. In my Aikido club we regularly train ground fighting techniques from our knees, ( Hanmihandachi and Suwariwaza). In Iowa, where wrestling is next to a religion, I have trained with grapplers and as long as I can get my knees under me I am able to hold my own with Aikido techniques. My point is that Aikido does teach groundwork, it’s just not demoed very often.
Getting back to the original post, MA and kids is an excellent combination. In my opinion, the real value of MA is in victory over yourself, rather then victory over others. A good MA teacher for kids will teach them self reliance, respect, discipline, awareness and confidence. The actual Martial art matters less then the instructor and dojo. Ask other parents what dojo their kids attend, get a census and then visit some of the dojos. Ask to observe a kids class.
One advantage of Aikido for Kids is that they are trained to defend themselves while avoiding injury to the attacker. Very helpful for the typical schoolyard tussle where a kick or punch would cause injury and get your child suspended from school. My 12 year old son, who trains in Aikido with me, was recently attacked by one of the older school bullies. He instinctively applied a technique, (Sankyo), which caused the attacker pain but no serious injury. The fight was over before it even started. The School troublemakers leave him alone now, as well as his group of friends. He prefers to avoid a fight if at all possible, but as Take Sensei says “You must be ever ready”.
Getting back to the original post, MA and kids is an excellent combination. In my opinion, the real value of MA is in victory over yourself, rather then victory over others. A good MA teacher for kids will teach them self reliance, respect, discipline, awareness and confidence. The actual Martial art matters less then the instructor and dojo. Ask other parents what dojo their kids attend, get a census and then visit some of the dojos. Ask to observe a kids class.
One advantage of Aikido for Kids is that they are trained to defend themselves while avoiding injury to the attacker. Very helpful for the typical schoolyard tussle where a kick or punch would cause injury and get your child suspended from school. My 12 year old son, who trains in Aikido with me, was recently attacked by one of the older school bullies. He instinctively applied a technique, (Sankyo), which caused the attacker pain but no serious injury. The fight was over before it even started. The School troublemakers leave him alone now, as well as his group of friends. He prefers to avoid a fight if at all possible, but as Take Sensei says “You must be ever ready”.
I can agree with much of what you've said here, at least as it pertains to my nephew, who is now 7 years old. He's exceptionally smart for his age, reading at a 7th-grade level now, but faces some of the unique problems these types of children do, such as hyperactivity, especially in class. He knows the answers to most everything in the classroom and is so excited to respond, oftentimes speaking out of turn. And he's always been a little overly sensitive.jkorpel said:
But since he's been in his martial arts classes, we've all seen remarkable changes gradually taking place within him. He is much calmer, has learned to respect the fact that he must wait his turn, does not speak out in class without getting permission, does not interrupt peoples' conversations without excusing himself, is not nearly as sensitive as he used to be, and is actually interested in participating in other sports now, such as soccer and baseball.
Some relatives think he's just "growing out of a phase", but I truly believe his participation in martial arts is the biggest contributing factor to these changes in him. He's confident, without being cocky or a bully--not that he was, anyway. And I do think he should learn some type of "self-defense", and, like your son, will hopefully learn this, but use it only when he deems it necessary.
My brother is now considering enrolling the 4 y/o in some type of beginner's program. Do they even start that young? Or is that a little too young to begin? Any thoughts?
jkorpel
New Member
Thats great news and a tribute to his dojo.
As a scoutmaster I come accross this attitude from parents all the time. In my experience its absolutely a false assumption, as atested to by the many adults that continue to have these behavorial problems. In my opinion this is a direct result of todays passive parenting, the idea that if we just sit back and be a friend to my child everything will turn out great. On the other hand, the kids I work with that do well in school, participate in sports and/or clubs, are community volunteers, socially well adjusted and respectfull of others are the kids who have active parents that make an effort to stay involved with their kids and provide them with structure. Martial Arts is not the only method of helping kids learn these values, but it is one of the best. Of course the scouting program is another great method
Thats a good question and largely dependent on the dojo's in your nephews area. Some of our local TKD clubs have a good kids program but they all seem to start at 5 years of age. IMO Aikido is better suited to older kids, 10year and up. Aikido techniques are complex to teach and require the ability to concentrate. Also, some of the joint locks are hard on growing young bodies.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, jkorpel. I do agree about the scouts. All three of my brothers grew up in scouts and they're fine guys--well, if I do say so myself. 
I don't have any friends involved in martial arts, but I can see the postive influences in my nephew that I feel are directly related to his training so far: The self-confidence, the respect for others, wanting to be involved in other sports, and even more patience and tolerance of his 4 y/o brother! That alone is remarkable--to watch him actually stop and help his brother with things now, whereas before he might have either ignored him or decked him. Sounds like maybe 4 is a bit young, but maybe he'll pick up some things watching his brother practice. And when I tell the 7 y/o how proud I am of him for helping his brother, he beams, but all he says is, "I'm his older brother, Aunt Serena. I'm supposed to help him."
He sure makes me proud.
I do agree about the scouts. All three of my brothers grew up in scouts and they're fine guys--well, if I do say so myself. I don't have any friends involved in martial arts, but I can see the postive influences in my nephew that I feel are directly related to his training so far: The self-confidence, the respect for others, wanting to be involved in other sports, and even more patience and tolerance of his 4 y/o brother!
That alone is remarkable--to watch him actually stop and help his brother with things now, whereas before he might have either ignored him or decked him. Sounds like maybe 4 is a bit young, but maybe he'll pick up some things watching his brother practice. And when I tell the 7 y/o how proud I am of him for helping his brother, he beams, but all he says is, "I'm his older brother, Aunt Serena. I'm supposed to help him." He sure makes me proud.