Most Street Applicable Martial Art?

Himalayasplaya

New Member
Which is the most street applicable martial art?
Aikido
Brazilian jiu jitsu
Dim mak
Hapkido
Judo
Krav Maga
Kung Fu
Muy Thai
Savate
Tae Kwon Do
Other

I have asked various martial artists and the majority either say Brazilian Jiu Jitsu or Muy Thai because of their success as martial arts in mma fighting competitions. Please post your thoughts and comments on this topic
 

Littledragon

Above The Law
No one Martial Art is better than the other, they all have their advantages.

I think you should take each skill from every art. Since 955 of all fihts end up on the ground you should know some grappling- BJJ. For multiple opponents you should know Aikido, also you should learn how to kick and punch, Muay Thai, Tae Kwon Do, Boxing, etc..

Never limit yourself to a style.
 

pantera

New Member
Littledragon said:
No one Martial Art is better than the other, they all have their advantages.
I agree with you LD.
And something important too is also having is balance. If you don't feel good with a style,you'd better change.
 

Aikilove

Old member aikidoka
I suggest you visit this webpage if you are interested in this kind of question.

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/

Klick on Street Fighting. Read the whole text (long I know, but well worth the read if you want the answere to the question: Is (fill in ultimate fighting art) good for self defense. And: "Traditional" martial arts Vs. "Real" fighting.).

/J
 

tenshinaikidoka

Martial Art Student
I liked that article and especially this......

It's not that I am against ground fighting. Through some brutally earned experiences I have some seriously controversial views on the subject of grappling and submission fighting in the streets. While it is a good sport system, the commonly held and wildly misguided belief that it is the ultimate fighting system is a dangerous delusion. While grappling has its time and place, trying to use it in a serious altercation can and will result in grave injury.

Gee, glad I am not the only one who thinks this way......LOL

And very interesting read Aikilove, thank you!!!!
 

Himalayasplaya

New Member
i dunno wut u two are talking about, i have seen several situations where ground grappling and several jiu jitsu techniques were adapted in fight situations in order to end a conflict. Traditional taekwondo helps up to a certain extent in far distances but is not as succesful in close range fighting or when you are on the ground. I do not agree with you aikilove and Tenshinaikidoka, i think brazilian jiu jitsu has a great deal of benefits in comparison to traditional stand up aggression often taught in taekwondo when in a street situation. This has been proved many times by the Gracie Jiu Jitsu family who have won numerous titles, trophies, respect and events by competing in various mma competitions.
 

Littledragon

Above The Law
Himalayasplaya said:
i dunno wut u two are talking about, i have seen several situations where ground grappling and several jiu jitsu techniques were adapted in fight situations in order to end a conflict. Traditional taekwondo helps up to a certain extent in far distances but is not as succesful in close range fighting or when you are on the ground. I do not agree with you aikilove and Tenshinaikidoka, i think brazilian jiu jitsu has a great deal of benefits in comparison to traditional stand up aggression often taught in taekwondo when in a street situation. This has been proved many times by the Gracie Jiu Jitsu family who have won numerous titles, trophies, respect and events by competing in various mma competitions.


I totally agree with you, Martial Artists who are too ignorant to learn the importance of ground fighting are only lying to themselves and will never be a complete martial artist.
 

Aikilove

Old member aikidoka
Littledragon and Himalayasplaya, did you guys actually read all of the stuff at http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/ ?

Neither me, Tenshinaikido or Marc McYoung (the author) thinks that BJJ is anything but great for what it is. I don't think any of us things anything but the highest of the Gracies and their skill. That wasn't the point. Read if you havn't and find out for yourself what it is that we agree with. (And I don't mean that little quote by Tenshinaikido. I mean the whole article).

/J

/J
 

Himalayasplaya

New Member
aikilove have u really ever seen gracie jiu jitsu in action?
if you have then you know that the techniques and principles which the Gracie family has taught is a set of priceless and valuable skills which will help any martial artist on the streets. Why do u think Royce Gracie goes around teaching police brazilian jiu jitsu techniques, because his techniques are bogus?...no, he teaches them since they are not old techniques developed by shaolin monks several centuries ago, but instead an art which was altered in order to let any one take out any opponent, big or small, with relatively little effort. Gracie Jiu Jitsu is a great art to know when attacked on the streets since 90% of fights end up on the ground. I think you are thinking of the wrong thing aikilove, i read the entire site it talks about how traditional martial arts do not help in the modern day problems of street violence, well brazilian jiu jitsu is not traditional that is why there are various schools teaching brazilian jiu jitsu among the Gracie family alone including rickson gracie jiu jitsu, royce gracie jiu jitsu, carlson gracie jiu jitsu, etc. That site which you linked earlier talks about the problems with traditional martial arts not being applicable to the current street violence of today. The problem with that site is that they stress too much psychological importance on a street fight and claim martial arts is not good in a street fight since anything goes in a street fight. However people in street fights dont even have real techniques to handle a street situation but fight dirty. However most people who have little or no martial arts experience would probably freeze when confronted in a street situation since they have not attained the discipline and sufficient training used to master techniques and principles from martial arts.
 

Aikilove

Old member aikidoka
Firstly, and I'm starting to get tired of repeting myself, I don't say again do not have anything but highest respect for what Gracie have developed. Please understand that!! And yes I have seen Helio, Rickson and Rorion etc. Gracie do their thing.

Secondly if you read the whole article he brings up sports (such as Vale Tudo etc) many times .
Read e.g.
Tournaments
By now you should have realized that there are significant differences between sports martial arts and self-defense. However, like a bad check this myth continues to keep on coming back. Currently the there is a new resurgence of this idea being promoted by a rather eloquent gentleman who is very, very adept at explaining why tournament fighting can -- and will -- prepare you for self-defense. And he is making a lot of money selling this idea because it is exactly what martial artists want to hear.

To start with we're not arguing that there are several overlapping factors that can be found in both self-defense and tournament sparring. Nor are we dismissing the idea that tournament sparring can indeed be a very good venue to practice key components and perfect fundamentals that you will need to apply in a SD situation (especially if you look at the tournament as a chance to practice against an unwilling/attacking opponent). And we definitely acknowledge that tournaments acquaint you with the idea of operating under adrenal stress conditions.

The main difference however, is that nobody is trying to kill you in a tournament.

This critical difference takes it miles beyond the idea of "winning" and introduces a terrible fear of "losing." No longer is it a friendly competition among students of the same school. Nor is it the ferocious, and yet controlled, contest between experienced and highly trained competitors that you see in the professional/semi pro circuits. Self-defense is exactly what it's name implies. It is protecting yourself from an unprovoked, unasked for, assault. And the consequences will be dire if you fail.

Having said this, can a tournament teach you how to fight? Well, it will do a better job doing that than it will teach you self-defense, because a tournament is willfully engaging in a contest. This "choice" gives you time to mentally prepare yourself for conflict. In that regard, as far as training for "reality" goes, it is far closer to both fighting and assaultive behavior. But even there you run into some significant problems that will be fully explained in the fighting section.

What we can address now however, is a point that has been mentioned already. That is that moves have been "pared down" so as not to inflict damage on your fellow competitor. That means it doesn't matter how "hard you do it," the safety protocols are already in place because the components that would cause severe injury have been removed. These moves were neutered long before you learned them and for reasons that have everything to do with safety, insurance, legal indemnification and commercial reasons. Again we respond to the contention that these moves would work for self-defense if they were only done "full force" with the question of "If that is so, then why do sporting events last for so long?" Which if you think about it, should make you hesitate before trying to use them in a fight as well.

To further complicate things the strategies and tactics, as well as the mindset and goals are entirely different than either combat or self-defense. Many of these issues are so well ingrained that the automatic reactions are in place without the martial artist even being aware of them. For example the strategy of jumping in, pounding on your opponent and then leaping back when he begins to counter attack -- which while it will score you points in the ring -- can get you killed in an actual fight as it gives your opponent time to pull a weapon; especially because you have just shown him both that you are a skilled fighter and yet, you gave him time to regroup and reorganize. In addition a good sports fighter has conditioned responses that can be turned against him by a sneaky opponent (e.g. tapping out or calling "break")
And there are many many more quotes like this.

What is in fact interesting is, if one read carefully what he wrote, he actually BBQ "so called ancient martial arts, promoted by someone with 32 different black belts" but, and here's where it's getting interesting, he did now (after a couple of decades) realise why traditional arts (japanese and chinese e.g.) are valid and effective as self defense (distinct from fighting read next quote!)! Partially because they have depth that one will internalize after a couple decades, that will save ones arse when being unprovocely attact (very distingt from fighting, which is illegal btw. but that's a different article, next quote), but more importantly by training sincerely in any of these arts one promotes a behaviour that effectivly keeps oneself out of this kind of attacks and by the same token suppress behaviour that would lead to exposure to hazardous situations.
Fighting
Simply stated if you are fighting you are part of the problem. Fighting implies that you are not only part of the conflict, but that you assisted in its creation and escalation. This is what we meant when we said your pre-conflict behavior will be carefully reviewed. If you, in any way, were a) instrumental in the creation of the problem that lead to the physical violence, (e.g. if you were threatening him, insulting him or arguing with him), b) continued to attack after he was obviously losing and/or had broken off his offensive actions or c) instead of attempting to escape you stayed there and fought to "win" you are fighting, you are not defending yourself. Straight up, police arrest both combatants of a fight... no matter who started it.

We address the difference between fighting and self-defense more fully elsewhere. In this section we would like to address another critical difference. A difference that is by and large why experienced fighters so often speak of the martial arts failing in "real fights" And that is the difference between assaultive behavior and a fight.

Unfortunately, when most martial artists dream of fighting, what they are picturing is assaultive behavior. A situation where you charge in and immediately overwhelm your opponent with a flurry of kicks and blows is not a fight, it is far, far closer to the legal definition of assault and battery. Putting it bluntly, charging in and beating the hell out of someone before they can defend themselves is a pretty reliable strategy. That is why it is so commonly used by aggressors.

It is not, however, a fight. If you have seen this strategy, you were not witnessing a fight, what you saw is legally deemed an assault.

Legal issues aside there is another critical component. With an assault you have the confidence of success because you are initiating the violence. In other words, you are pretty safe because you are launching the attacks and by immediately overwhelming your opponent you pretty well assure your safety. As such, even though there is an adrenalin dump and excitement, you're not overly concerned with your personal safety.

Not so in an actual fight. A "fight" is a knock down, drag out, tooth and nail conflict with someone who is just as tough -- if not tougher -- than yourself. And that somebody is as dedicated to getting a piece out of you as you are dedicated to getting him. And that means the only thing keeping from doing unto you before you do unto him is you and your fighting skills. Here's a hint, how to tell if you're in a fight, you fire your best shot and he shakes it off and charges in firing back.

When you find yourself in a fight, all the confidence of an assault goes out the window. You now have to deal with the fear of getting your ass kicked. And putting it mildly, this can result in performance anxiety, especially when you find your defensive moves crumbling before his attacks. Now you have the extra stress of making him go down before you do.

This happens even in empty handed slug-fests where the fighters are not trying to kill each other, but rather establish dominance, punish one another for misconduct, ego-preservation, revenge, seeking a "prize" or any of the other sociological/psychological reasons people fight. If you aren't scared of damage being inflicted on you, you aren't in a fight, you're assaulting someone.

Let me tell you, you know you've done treed yourself a bad one when he takes your best shot, his head whips back and glares at you for a split second before launching himself back at you. When that happens you know you're in a fight and it is a bad, bad sinking feeling. 'Cause win, lose or draw, you know this one is gonna hurt...

/J
 

tenshinaikidoka

Martial Art Student
Now for my two cents worth....

First of all, I have studied several different styles of arts. I started with Shotokan Karate and then went on to Tae Kwon Do. Then I decided to go with Judo and Jeet Kune Do Concepts, Aikijutsu and Aikido. At the same time I decided to try Brazilian Jiu Jitsu as well (Under The Gracie Flag). My background in the arts spans 21 years now. Longer than some people on the forum have been alive. I have also been in confrontations where I have had to use skill obtained in the arts.

Now having said this, let me state as far as the Gracies go, I respect them always. They have excellent techniques and anyone who has REALLY studied with them or the Gracie style knows there is more to their art then going to the ground. The problem is when the UFC and subsequent tournaments came out, it emphasized going to the ground. They did this in order to win the match either by submission or tap out. Now honestly, if you do go to the ground, would you be able to defeat your primary attacker and then defend against his buddies who are rushing in to help him and hurt you?? That is an important question that one must ask. Do I think people need to learn some grappling? Yes! Is a grappling/ground art the end all be all? NO! I have fine tuned my skill for what I need. Aikido, specifically Tenshin Aikido, has opened my eyes to a whole new ball game. If I have to I can still defend against an aggressor on the ground, not a problem. But when you speak of things such as UFC etc your talking about a tournament WITH rules and it does not represent a "Street Fight". It represents Mixed Martial Artist going for the quick win in order to obtain a championship belt/trophy/money.

Now, Little, I have said this before, I respect you as an artist, but I do not respect the fact that you are saying either Aikilove or myself are ignorant. I did not ask for your approval nor do I want it. It is not my intention to start a p*ssing contest here, but let me set the record straight. I have been in "street fights" and have defended against multiple people and all have ended with me not going to the ground. And also in my profession I have to deal with unruly people and Aikido is my choice for control. Not Judo or Jui Jitsu or Karate or Tae Kwon Do. But again, I think that you doing your Tae Kwon Do and BJJ it will work for you. However for me I had to find my way.

Himalaya, when you speak of the Gracies winning trophies etc, that tells me that there is good tournament fighting, not good street fighting. However, let me state, I do know the Gracies have been in defeated street aggressors. My point is, that would be a one on one situation.

When I posted that quote from the article, my point was that the author, having spent years and years fighting in Los Angeles (in my opinion one of the most dangerous U.S. Cities) cited downfalls with grappling. The streets are not fair, and there are no rules.

I am hoping that this will clear up my point of view, and if not, I am sorry. And sorry for my long winded response!
 

Himalayasplaya

New Member
tenshinaikidoka said:
First of all, I have studied several different styles of arts. I started with Shotokan Karate and then went on to Tae Kwon Do. Then I decided to go with Judo and Jeet Kune Do Concepts, Aikijutsu and Aikido. At the same time I decided to try Brazilian Jiu Jitsu as well (Under The Gracie Flag). My background in the arts spans 21 years now. Longer than some people on the forum have been alive. I have also been in confrontations where I have had to use skill obtained in the arts.

Now having said this, let me state as far as the Gracies go, I respect them always. They have excellent techniques and anyone who has REALLY studied with them or the Gracie style knows there is more to their art then going to the ground. The problem is when the UFC and subsequent tournaments came out, it emphasized going to the ground. They did this in order to win the match either by submission or tap out. Now honestly, if you do go to the ground, would you be able to defeat your primary attacker and then defend against his buddies who are rushing in to help him and hurt you?? That is an important question that one must ask. Do I think people need to learn some grappling? Yes! Is a grappling/ground art the end all be all? NO! I have fine tuned my skill for what I need. Aikido, specifically Tenshin Aikido, has opened my eyes to a whole new ball game. If I have to I can still defend against an aggressor on the ground, not a problem. But when you speak of things such as UFC etc your talking about a tournament WITH rules and it does not represent a "Street Fight". It represents Mixed Martial Artist going for the quick win in order to obtain a championship belt/trophy/money.

Now, Little, I have said this before, I respect you as an artist, but I do not respect the fact that you are saying either Aikilove or myself are ignorant. I did not ask for your approval nor do I want it. It is not my intention to start a p*ssing contest here, but let me set the record straight. I have been in "street fights" and have defended against multiple people and all have ended with me not going to the ground. And also in my profession I have to deal with unruly people and Aikido is my choice for control. Not Judo or Jui Jitsu or Karate or Tae Kwon Do. But again, I think that you doing your Tae Kwon Do and BJJ it will work for you. However for me I had to find my way.

Himalaya, when you speak of the Gracies winning trophies etc, that tells me that there is good tournament fighting, not good street fighting. However, let me state, I do know the Gracies have been in defeated street aggressors. My point is, that would be a one on one situation.

When I posted that quote from the article, my point was that the author, having spent years and years fighting in Los Angeles (in my opinion one of the most dangerous U.S. Cities) cited downfalls with grappling. The streets are not fair, and there are no rules.

I am hoping that this will clear up my point of view, and if not, I am sorry. And sorry for my long winded response!


You said " I do know the Gracies have been in defeated street aggressors", if you mean that the Gracies have been defeated in street fights before then you are wrong. Rickson Gracie, the champion of the Gracie family, fought some 400 streetfights in Brazil for training, and he never lost once so to say that the Gracies have been defeated is very hypocritical since you also have said "as far as the Gracies go, I respect them always". I understand knowing the psychology of a street fight is important in a street sitation, but it is more important to have a planned set of techniques one must implement in case he or she is in harm's way(martial arts). Since 95% of street altercations end up on the ground, it seems best for an individual to become well versed in the martial arts instead of learning simple psychological thought patterns of attackers. If what you two are saying is true then hypothetically speaking a psychologist who has no experience in the martial arts can take down an attacker better than any in the Gracie family. The problem with your methodology of handling a street fight is that you think too much and during a street situation one is not granted time to formulate an attack plan against his/her attacker. One must become knowledgeable in Martial Arts to become better in self defense, since Martial Arts focuses on teaching techniques as well as principles for various sitations which can apply to various street situations.
 

Littledragon

Above The Law
Aikilove said:
Firstly, and I'm starting to get tired of repeting myself, I don't say again do not have anything but highest respect for what Gracie have developed. Please understand that!! And yes I have seen Helio, Rickson and Rorion etc. Gracie do their thing.

Secondly if you read the whole article he brings up sports (such as Vale Tudo etc) many times .
Read e.g. And there are many many more quotes like this.

What is in fact interesting is, if one read carefully what he wrote, he actually BBQ "so called ancient martial arts, promoted by someone with 32 different black belts" but, and here's where it's getting interesting, he did now (after a couple of decades) realise why traditional arts (japanese and chinese e.g.) are valid and effective as self defense (distinct from fighting read next quote!)! Partially because they have depth that one will internalize after a couple decades, that will save ones arse when being unprovocely attact (very distingt from fighting, which is illegal btw. but that's a different article, next quote), but more importantly by training sincerely in any of these arts one promotes a behaviour that effectivly keeps oneself out of this kind of attacks and by the same token suppress behaviour that would lead to exposure to hazardous situations.


/J


That website is mostly about physcological and sociological theories on sel-defense, honestly the person who wrote this sounds more like a pshyciatrist than a Martial Artist, as well as that is just his opinion. Not a good example at all because the whole site is just pshycological theroy, in a real fight you are not thinking as clearly and sharply so all those factors he is talking about wont register the instant you clinch your fists and about to brawl.
 

Littledragon

Above The Law
Why Fights End Up On The Ground.

tenshinaikidoka said:
First of all, I have studied several different styles of arts. I started with Shotokan Karate and then went on to Tae Kwon Do. Then I decided to go with Judo and Jeet Kune Do Concepts, Aikijutsu and Aikido. At the same time I decided to try Brazilian Jiu Jitsu as well (Under The Gracie Flag). My background in the arts spans 21 years now. Longer than some people on the forum have been alive. I have also been in confrontations where I have had to use skill obtained in the arts.

Now having said this, let me state as far as the Gracies go, I respect them always. They have excellent techniques and anyone who has REALLY studied with them or the Gracie style knows there is more to their art then going to the ground. The problem is when the UFC and subsequent tournaments came out, it emphasized going to the ground. They did this in order to win the match either by submission or tap out. Now honestly, if you do go to the ground, would you be able to defeat your primary attacker and then defend against his buddies who are rushing in to help him and hurt you?? That is an important question that one must ask. Do I think people need to learn some grappling? Yes! Is a grappling/ground art the end all be all? NO! I have fine tuned my skill for what I need. Aikido, specifically Tenshin Aikido, has opened my eyes to a whole new ball game. If I have to I can still defend against an aggressor on the ground, not a problem. But when you speak of things such as UFC etc your talking about a tournament WITH rules and it does not represent a "Street Fight". It represents Mixed Martial Artist going for the quick win in order to obtain a championship belt/trophy/money.

Now, Little, I have said this before, I respect you as an artist, but I do not respect the fact that you are saying either Aikilove or myself are ignorant. I did not ask for your approval nor do I want it. It is not my intention to start a p*ssing contest here, but let me set the record straight. I have been in "street fights" and have defended against multiple people and all have ended with me not going to the ground. And also in my profession I have to deal with unruly people and Aikido is my choice for control. Not Judo or Jui Jitsu or Karate or Tae Kwon Do. But again, I think that you doing your Tae Kwon Do and BJJ it will work for you. However for me I had to find my way.

Himalaya, when you speak of the Gracies winning trophies etc, that tells me that there is good tournament fighting, not good street fighting. However, let me state, I do know the Gracies have been in defeated street aggressors. My point is, that would be a one on one situation.

When I posted that quote from the article, my point was that the author, having spent years and years fighting in Los Angeles (in my opinion one of the most dangerous U.S. Cities) cited downfalls with grappling. The streets are not fair, and there are no rules.

I am hoping that this will clear up my point of view, and if not, I am sorry. And sorry for my long winded response!

When I say or not when I say when the statistics from POLICE DEPARTMENT RECORDS say that 95% of all fights end up on the ground it is not a grappling match, it is a brawl:

That is good that you have not ended up on the ground, you know why because you know how to defend yourself. The reason 95% of all street fights end up on the ground is a fight between two unexperienced street fighters or brawlers, not skilled martial artists. Situations is if a guy gets a good hit on the jaw the other guy falls down, just one punch can make anyone fall down. Also weapons are a factor, if the guy hits another guy with a bat he goes to the ground, also on the Worlds's Wildest Street Fights DVD, multiple opponents vs. one guy make the other guy go to the ground, also if another guy is chasing another and ends up in a clinch and tackles the guy to a sloppy brawl. Most street fights include just two guys pissed at each other or in other words "got beef with eachother", and they are just brawling which ends up on the ground because of the hit or hits, not necessarily a single leg tackdown and using Jiu-Jitsu moves. Skilled Martial Artists are not usually in a street fight in day to day basis, brawlers dont know the techniques martial arts teaches, they are just sloppy and it ends to the ground again because the guy hit him in the face and he falls or a brawl and they loose there balance while grabbing on each others clothes, etc..
 

Littledragon

Above The Law
tenshinaikidoka said:
First of all, I have studied several different styles of arts. I started with Shotokan Karate and then went on to Tae Kwon Do. Then I decided to go with Judo and Jeet Kune Do Concepts, Aikijutsu and Aikido. At the same time I decided to try Brazilian Jiu Jitsu as well (Under The Gracie Flag). My background in the arts spans 21 years now. Longer than some people on the forum have been alive. I have also been in confrontations where I have had to use skill obtained in the arts.

Now having said this, let me state as far as the Gracies go, I respect them always. They have excellent techniques and anyone who has REALLY studied with them or the Gracie style knows there is more to their art then going to the ground. The problem is when the UFC and subsequent tournaments came out, it emphasized going to the ground. They did this in order to win the match either by submission or tap out. Now honestly, if you do go to the ground, would you be able to defeat your primary attacker and then defend against his buddies who are rushing in to help him and hurt you?? That is an important question that one must ask. Do I think people need to learn some grappling? Yes! Is a grappling/ground art the end all be all? NO! I have fine tuned my skill for what I need. Aikido, specifically Tenshin Aikido, has opened my eyes to a whole new ball game. If I have to I can still defend against an aggressor on the ground, not a problem. But when you speak of things such as UFC etc your talking about a tournament WITH rules and it does not represent a "Street Fight". It represents Mixed Martial Artist going for the quick win in order to obtain a championship belt/trophy/money.

Now, Little, I have said this before, I respect you as an artist, but I do not respect the fact that you are saying either Aikilove or myself are ignorant. I did not ask for your approval nor do I want it. It is not my intention to start a p*ssing contest here, but let me set the record straight. I have been in "street fights" and have defended against multiple people and all have ended with me not going to the ground. And also in my profession I have to deal with unruly people and Aikido is my choice for control. Not Judo or Jui Jitsu or Karate or Tae Kwon Do. But again, I think that you doing your Tae Kwon Do and BJJ it will work for you. However for me I had to find my way.

Himalaya, when you speak of the Gracies winning trophies etc, that tells me that there is good tournament fighting, not good street fighting. However, let me state, I do know the Gracies have been in defeated street aggressors. My point is, that would be a one on one situation.

When I posted that quote from the article, my point was that the author, having spent years and years fighting in Los Angeles (in my opinion one of the most dangerous U.S. Cities) cited downfalls with grappling. The streets are not fair, and there are no rules.

I am hoping that this will clear up my point of view, and if not, I am sorry. And sorry for my long winded response!

If it is a multiple opponenet situation most likely wou would not want to take your opponent to the ground and fight on your back, in this case you should use Aikido or any art that focuses on join minipulations or Jeet Kune Do, or using a Muay Thai kick to the leg or knee or grabbing the guy choking him while you are behind the opponents to use the opponent you have as a weapon against them.

As far as 1 on 1 the only time you should take it to the ground as a Martial Artist in a street fight is if you are a good grappler, or if the opponent is much bigger than you and you know you physically can not control him, that is why it is so important to know ground fighting, If someone rocks you with one punch, one punch is enough to make you fall down, and the guy is on top of you trying to beat the crap out of u, that is where BJJ, or Grappling comes in handy.

It all depens on the situation, but as a Martial Artist, a good Martial Artist must know the many dimensions of fighting not just one art.
 

Aikilove

Old member aikidoka
Littledragon said:
That website is mostly about physcological and sociological theories on sel-defense, honestly the person who wrote this sounds more like a pshyciatrist than a Martial Artist, as well as that is just his opinion. Not a good example at all because the whole site is just pshycological theroy, in a real fight you are not thinking as clearly and sharply so all those factors he is talking about wont register the instant you clinch your fists and about to brawl.
Either you are extremely naive or you can't read or you didn't read the text at all. I can garantee you that Marc "Animal" McYoung has been in more "street fights" (probably started half of them) than you will be able to see on video. All or most of all of them with the likely risk of serious injury or death to him or/and his opponents. HE has in fact in many cases been seriously injured from many of the "fights".
So this guy knows first hand what a "street fight" imply ok. Do you?
If he says after all these years of walking that dirty path that one thing is important to know I would take his word for it any day of the week and twice on sundays if I had to choose between him and someone who has never been there for real.

Either you agree with me now or you will later or you will never. Either way I don't think there is much point going on with this since it's never going somewere.

/J
 

yudansha

TheGreatOne
ok it's been a while...

... but do you guys really think that the majority of martial arts schools in north america teach their martial arts in a triditional way ... what I'm saying is this: if you bring somebody who's been studying martial arts in Japan since they were born and bring them somewhere here, I would think that they would be able to defend themselves rather easily against any typical thug ... plus, when it comes to firepower and extracting a weapon like that in a real situation from one who is determined to cause harm would be an unwise decision. I'd think you'd be better off co-operating. And let me ask you this, what if you've been studying your grappling arts and come into a situation where you just can't get your opponent to the ground, what's your next move? Let's say you weigh 150 and the bouncer who's being rude to you is 300lbs, you think you will have enough muscle power to get the guy off balance and to the ground especially seeing as they probably have much more tolerance for pain.
 

Littledragon

Above The Law
yudansha said:
... but do you guys really think that the majority of martial arts schools in north america teach their martial arts in a triditional way ... what I'm saying is this: if you bring somebody who's been studying martial arts in Japan since they were born and bring them somewhere here, I would think that they would be able to defend themselves rather easily against any typical thug ... plus, when it comes to firepower and extracting a weapon like that in a real situation from one who is determined to cause harm would be an unwise decision. I'd think you'd be better off co-operating. And let me ask you this, what if you've been studying your grappling arts and come into a situation where you just can't get your opponent to the ground, what's your next move? Let's say you weigh 150 and the bouncer who's being rude to you is 300lbs, you think you will have enough muscle power to get the guy off balance and to the ground especially seeing as they probably have much more tolerance for pain.


Then the practiconer obviously has not studied the art as extensivley as pointed.. ;)

Yudansha in a fight size does not matter, size only matter when both skill levels are equal. What you should do in that situations is strike to various places like the knees, groin etc.. but you would not want to stand up with a 300lb guy, you would not want to get "rocked" by one of his punches. If he can take alot of pain which you said. It is easy to take people to the ground if you know how, single leg takedowns can easily make some one off balance no matter the size because you are just tackling the opponent from the lower ankles and all of the person's weight is not 100% located their, even in wrestling they teach that.

The point is, you would use different techniques or should I say ways to defend yourself all depending who the opponent is. If the person is really big strike and run, or strike and choke the person out quick, etc..

Once again, a good martial artist does not think which style he or she will use when in a fight, they use what will work.
 

yudansha

TheGreatOne
but now you're going way off

Let's say you are limited to grappling. That would do you no good. That's what I think, and that's what I've seen. Like I said Little D, try going against a Summo wrestler. Go, get him to the ground. Let's say that somehow you would magically get him to roll over, do you think you'd be able to lift his leg or his arm for you to choke him successfully? Personally, I don't think you'd succeed at that if you're limited to your grappling techniques.

Also, you don't seem to know this, so let me enlighten you, there have been cases where fighters use special medication to relieve sensitivity in their nerve endings, so your pressure points techniques wouldn't work as efficiently as you'd expect them to. And hence comes the element of surprise ... easy to get caught off guard that way.
 

Littledragon

Above The Law
yudansha said:
Let's say you are limited to grappling. That would do you no good. That's what I think, and that's what I've seen. Like I said Little D, try going against a Summo wrestler. Go, get him to the ground. Let's say that somehow you would magically get him to roll over, do you think you'd be able to lift his leg or his arm for you to choke him successfully? Personally, I don't think you'd succeed at that if you're limited to your grappling techniques.

Also, you don't seem to know this, so let me enlighten you, there have been cases where fighters use special medication to relieve sensitivity in their nerve endings, so your pressure points techniques wouldn't work as efficiently as you'd expect them to. And hence comes the element of surprise ... easy to get caught off guard that way.


You see that would never happen to me because I am a multi dimentional fighter, if that is the case with just a grappler what will I say.. It's their loss since they are too stubborn to learn other styles.

People are preceiving me as a grappler but I am not, I am a martial artist and I believe in grappling as well as kicking, punches, and joint locks, etc..

MULTIDIMENTIONAL FIGHTER.
 

yudansha

TheGreatOne
"People are preceiving me as a..."

hahaha ... sorry ... but LOL anyways!

Listen, it is YOU who talks of grappling arts (and Gracies) as ultimate defense systems, and now you say that it's no good. Do you like making contradictions to statements you say you completely believe in?

Grappling is a helpful technique to know. Yes, without a doubt, but it's not a perfect system that would get you standing at the end of the day every time.

The average person is not a martial artist and if they try to get you to the ground, I don't see why you would let them in the first place, especially if you're being attacked by multiple opponents.

What I don't get is why is it that you would always need to get your opponent to the ground in order to defeat?
 
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