kokoro
Protector
I didn't even realise I had this lying around the house, courtesy Australasian Fighting Arts.
I've only managed to write about half of the interview that I have, I'll post the rest here in a couple of days.
It's an old interview, but still worth a read. Sorry I don't have the date.
==============================================
The Lethal Aikido Art Of Shihan Steven Seagal.
Interview by Larry Reynosa and Joseph Billingiere
The following are excerpts from an interview with Shihan Steven Seagal. The purpose of the interview was to seek answers to some very difficult questions in an effort by the authors to provide the most definitive information available.
Seagal Sensei offered a wonderful opportunity because of his eminent qualifications-----a 6th Dan Aikido Master, a Shinto Priest in the Omoto Kyo Sect (in which O’Sensei himself was a Priest), and an American who has spent most of his life living in Japan and studying Aikido within it’s true cultural context. Who better an original source?
Seagal Sensei is a living bridge between Aikido in Japan and the West.
He is also a very nice man who graciously offered his time and knowledge and the opportunity to “pick his brain”. The result is a concise and elegantly worded discourse on some of the most important and obscure aspects of Aikido training.
The interview opened with Seagal Sensei being asked to elaborate on some comments he had made several days prior to this interview, regarding the subject of protocol in Aikido training........
Seagal Sensei: Well, the importance to me is they (new students) should understand that protocol is not the same conception that the average Westerner already has. The first important rule that anybody should have when coming into a dojo is to have an empty cup. It is to have no preconceived notions or expectations about what this is. That is to say, protocol to a Westerner, in many instances is some kind of prefabricated, formal ritual that someone has to go through, that doesn’t have to do with anything. But, highly to the contrary, in essence, protocol in the Japanese sense is the very most basic vehicle created to take you through the numbers of learning, in what one has to experience in order to reach the goal which is proper learning.
What I try to tell my students is that we have to learn how to begin properly. That in learning how to begin properly, you learn the essence of protocol, starting at the basics. Starting at the basics has to do with absolute humility. Knowing that you know nothing about what is about to go on and that you must become an empty mirror, you know? And when you start with attitude, you understand that discipline is one of the keys to protocol.
It’s like in tea ceremony, people see all this superfluous silly movement going on and they think, ‘god, what a silly waste of time’. In reality, tea ceremony and all of those movements, and all the etiquette and protocol involved is to teach you humility, grace and tranquillity. These are some of the basic elements that are hidden within the secrets of protocol.
All of the values of protocol that I am just discussing with you, are never going to be discovered by your average Westerner if he or she just gets out there and says ‘ok, I’m going to bow to the shrine because everybody else is’. ‘Why do I have to say this and do that?’ You know?
But the idea is the road to enlightenment can…any form of enlightenment can only be achieved through suffering and hardships and difficulties. In other words, any form of enlightenment can only be obtained when the road to all of one’s theoretical progress is blocked. Do you see what I’m saying? Even the road to thinking…a lot of times the teacher will teach by blocking the road to thinking. And that’s the other side to protocol. It’s not only all these things, but it is to create a state of mind so that the students can learn better. And that to me, is the essence of protocol. When a student has had the road to thinking blocked, when he’s had all of his senses deprived, in other words you are starting at the most sparse levels of everything. There’s not a lot of food or drink, there’s not a lot of acceptance, not a lot of praise, there’s not a lot of any of that. Traditionally, in the dojo there is none of that.
You know, really it is the most basic of basics. It is one room full of straw mats and a mirror, or straw mats and an alter. And those basics symbolise a form of deprivation of everything other than that. That is to say you are in that room to face, and for the first time, open up and view yourself. It’s the way to develop a frame of mind where you become so hungry and so attuned and so attentive, because there’s nothing else there but that. Now you can learn. That to me is the essence of protocol. Do I make any sense??
Interviewer: Yes it does, but I am viewing it from my point of view and not so much from the point of someone just walking into the dojo.
SS: Yes…I can only give you the whole picture, which is maybe very advanced and anything you can take out of any of this most basic form will be good. I can tell you what I can tell you, and maybe you can try to find the root form and put some of the broad strokes down on paper.
Interviewer: We believe that’s precisely what we are trying to do. However, how can this be expressed to many beginning students in America (and other western countries) who are used to a western style of learning, which is an analytical, systematic style versus an eastern style of learning, which is totally different?
SS: Yes it is the classical ‘ catch 22’, in the sense that really in Japan students are expected to come into the dojo adhering to basic protocol----to sit down, follow orders, follow what everybody else is doing, and listen and pay attention, and learn to listen and pay attention and learn to learn form what you see and hear. And that should be in this book.
For a certain period, if the teachers good, he will see that this person has been around long enough to now start to learn some of these things. In other words, if I can say “ok, now we are going to do a certain form of jumbi undo.” And everybody starts going like this (motioning an exercise). And the guys says “well, what’s that for?” You know, on his first day, if I show him what that’s for, he probably really is not going to understand, for one thing.
For another thing, if somebody on their first day comes in and wants to ask everything that they don’t understand, you’re going to be spending the whole day teaching them what they don’t understand. Whereas, if they, by paying attention, by shutting up, listening, watching and doing; if they figure it out, it is going to be so much more meaningful to them, because they are going to understand it on a different level. Do you understand that?
Here again there’s a fine line between how much they are supposed to figure out, and how much you should help them with. And my feeling on that is that a basic book like this in every dojo would be wonderful.
Interviewer: So you see this book as somewhat of a compliment, a blending of eastern and western learning systems?
SS: That’s right. This from of Shugyo has been around for at least two thousand years. And it’s not around by accident. And what Shugyo is all about is not being spoon-fed. It’s about trying to attune your awareness to being able to really understand and learn.
Interviewer: Questions often asked by beginners and spectators of Aikido practice are, “ Is he really taking ukemi (falling) out of necessity, or is he just falling for convenience?” And “Is he really being thrown like that?”
SS: It depends on who is throwing him, doesn’t it?
Interviewer: An answer often given in the form of a question is “ what is reality?” How would you react to this question?
SS: I’ll tell you exactly what I’d say. Two things. One, it depends on who is throwing whom. And two, right now if I’m throwing Matsuoka (Chief Instructor of Tenshin Dojo), yes, it’s real. And I would say right now, if I’m throwing Larry, it’s real.
I would say, on the other hand, if I’m throwing a beginning white belt, most of the time it is real. Even though they are the utmost beginner, and even though we can’t get to the real thing together, we are still….. I’m trying to find their level of confidence and fit that and go seriously at that level. I’m not going to throw them or do any joint lock or any strikes or anything to the point they are really going to get hurt, unless they understand this and want to go harder.
I’ve been in classes with Aikido beginners who were advanced in other arts who wanted to test me, and saying, “well, this really doesn’t work”, and “I’m going to do this; And I’ve had somebody dislocate their own shoulder. I had him and he tried to flip his body out of it and he just dislocated his arm right out.
==============================================
more to follow later
I've only managed to write about half of the interview that I have, I'll post the rest here in a couple of days.
It's an old interview, but still worth a read. Sorry I don't have the date.
==============================================
The Lethal Aikido Art Of Shihan Steven Seagal.
Interview by Larry Reynosa and Joseph Billingiere
The following are excerpts from an interview with Shihan Steven Seagal. The purpose of the interview was to seek answers to some very difficult questions in an effort by the authors to provide the most definitive information available.
Seagal Sensei offered a wonderful opportunity because of his eminent qualifications-----a 6th Dan Aikido Master, a Shinto Priest in the Omoto Kyo Sect (in which O’Sensei himself was a Priest), and an American who has spent most of his life living in Japan and studying Aikido within it’s true cultural context. Who better an original source?
Seagal Sensei is a living bridge between Aikido in Japan and the West.
He is also a very nice man who graciously offered his time and knowledge and the opportunity to “pick his brain”. The result is a concise and elegantly worded discourse on some of the most important and obscure aspects of Aikido training.
The interview opened with Seagal Sensei being asked to elaborate on some comments he had made several days prior to this interview, regarding the subject of protocol in Aikido training........
Seagal Sensei: Well, the importance to me is they (new students) should understand that protocol is not the same conception that the average Westerner already has. The first important rule that anybody should have when coming into a dojo is to have an empty cup. It is to have no preconceived notions or expectations about what this is. That is to say, protocol to a Westerner, in many instances is some kind of prefabricated, formal ritual that someone has to go through, that doesn’t have to do with anything. But, highly to the contrary, in essence, protocol in the Japanese sense is the very most basic vehicle created to take you through the numbers of learning, in what one has to experience in order to reach the goal which is proper learning.
What I try to tell my students is that we have to learn how to begin properly. That in learning how to begin properly, you learn the essence of protocol, starting at the basics. Starting at the basics has to do with absolute humility. Knowing that you know nothing about what is about to go on and that you must become an empty mirror, you know? And when you start with attitude, you understand that discipline is one of the keys to protocol.
It’s like in tea ceremony, people see all this superfluous silly movement going on and they think, ‘god, what a silly waste of time’. In reality, tea ceremony and all of those movements, and all the etiquette and protocol involved is to teach you humility, grace and tranquillity. These are some of the basic elements that are hidden within the secrets of protocol.
All of the values of protocol that I am just discussing with you, are never going to be discovered by your average Westerner if he or she just gets out there and says ‘ok, I’m going to bow to the shrine because everybody else is’. ‘Why do I have to say this and do that?’ You know?
But the idea is the road to enlightenment can…any form of enlightenment can only be achieved through suffering and hardships and difficulties. In other words, any form of enlightenment can only be obtained when the road to all of one’s theoretical progress is blocked. Do you see what I’m saying? Even the road to thinking…a lot of times the teacher will teach by blocking the road to thinking. And that’s the other side to protocol. It’s not only all these things, but it is to create a state of mind so that the students can learn better. And that to me, is the essence of protocol. When a student has had the road to thinking blocked, when he’s had all of his senses deprived, in other words you are starting at the most sparse levels of everything. There’s not a lot of food or drink, there’s not a lot of acceptance, not a lot of praise, there’s not a lot of any of that. Traditionally, in the dojo there is none of that.
You know, really it is the most basic of basics. It is one room full of straw mats and a mirror, or straw mats and an alter. And those basics symbolise a form of deprivation of everything other than that. That is to say you are in that room to face, and for the first time, open up and view yourself. It’s the way to develop a frame of mind where you become so hungry and so attuned and so attentive, because there’s nothing else there but that. Now you can learn. That to me is the essence of protocol. Do I make any sense??
Interviewer: Yes it does, but I am viewing it from my point of view and not so much from the point of someone just walking into the dojo.
SS: Yes…I can only give you the whole picture, which is maybe very advanced and anything you can take out of any of this most basic form will be good. I can tell you what I can tell you, and maybe you can try to find the root form and put some of the broad strokes down on paper.
Interviewer: We believe that’s precisely what we are trying to do. However, how can this be expressed to many beginning students in America (and other western countries) who are used to a western style of learning, which is an analytical, systematic style versus an eastern style of learning, which is totally different?
SS: Yes it is the classical ‘ catch 22’, in the sense that really in Japan students are expected to come into the dojo adhering to basic protocol----to sit down, follow orders, follow what everybody else is doing, and listen and pay attention, and learn to listen and pay attention and learn to learn form what you see and hear. And that should be in this book.
For a certain period, if the teachers good, he will see that this person has been around long enough to now start to learn some of these things. In other words, if I can say “ok, now we are going to do a certain form of jumbi undo.” And everybody starts going like this (motioning an exercise). And the guys says “well, what’s that for?” You know, on his first day, if I show him what that’s for, he probably really is not going to understand, for one thing.
For another thing, if somebody on their first day comes in and wants to ask everything that they don’t understand, you’re going to be spending the whole day teaching them what they don’t understand. Whereas, if they, by paying attention, by shutting up, listening, watching and doing; if they figure it out, it is going to be so much more meaningful to them, because they are going to understand it on a different level. Do you understand that?
Here again there’s a fine line between how much they are supposed to figure out, and how much you should help them with. And my feeling on that is that a basic book like this in every dojo would be wonderful.
Interviewer: So you see this book as somewhat of a compliment, a blending of eastern and western learning systems?
SS: That’s right. This from of Shugyo has been around for at least two thousand years. And it’s not around by accident. And what Shugyo is all about is not being spoon-fed. It’s about trying to attune your awareness to being able to really understand and learn.
Interviewer: Questions often asked by beginners and spectators of Aikido practice are, “ Is he really taking ukemi (falling) out of necessity, or is he just falling for convenience?” And “Is he really being thrown like that?”
SS: It depends on who is throwing him, doesn’t it?
Interviewer: An answer often given in the form of a question is “ what is reality?” How would you react to this question?
SS: I’ll tell you exactly what I’d say. Two things. One, it depends on who is throwing whom. And two, right now if I’m throwing Matsuoka (Chief Instructor of Tenshin Dojo), yes, it’s real. And I would say right now, if I’m throwing Larry, it’s real.
I would say, on the other hand, if I’m throwing a beginning white belt, most of the time it is real. Even though they are the utmost beginner, and even though we can’t get to the real thing together, we are still….. I’m trying to find their level of confidence and fit that and go seriously at that level. I’m not going to throw them or do any joint lock or any strikes or anything to the point they are really going to get hurt, unless they understand this and want to go harder.
I’ve been in classes with Aikido beginners who were advanced in other arts who wanted to test me, and saying, “well, this really doesn’t work”, and “I’m going to do this; And I’ve had somebody dislocate their own shoulder. I had him and he tried to flip his body out of it and he just dislocated his arm right out.
==============================================
more to follow later