Littledragon
Above The Law
tora said:I'm curious...where the sources are coming from...Umm...Hey folks,we seem to be totally ignorant of the truth!
There are no sources it is just his opinion lol.
tora said:I'm curious...where the sources are coming from...Umm...Hey folks,we seem to be totally ignorant of the truth!
tora said:I was teasing ourselves and this guy too.LOL
yudansha said:Bruce Lee wouldn't fight like that because he was more mature than any other master such as Steven Seagal at that age. Steven Seagal wanted to get recognized as the great one and he did everything he could to be respected especially by the Japanese community. I don't think he cared a rats ass for the American fighters who thought they were all that. And if your best source is Bob Wall, the professional attention seeker who without Chuck Norris would be nowhere, then you've got another thing coming, because you don't know what the heck you're talking about. Bob Wall is one of the things that defines what a rumour is supposed to be.
Bruce Lee was never defeated by no chinese gangs or mobsters or whoever came his way. Bruce Lee defended his honour and his rights to teach anybody he wished no matter how many china town bad ass "wanna-be's" came his way and failed with their threats. That's how Bruce Lee got recognized in San Francisco. Gary, you should probably read some biographies that have been authenticated and were written by biographers who spent portions of their lives studying the Eastern arts and those who dominated the field.
Bruce Lee was not just good, he was gggggreat! (just as that tiger commercial talks about cereal ... I wonder if that's Tora's doing :=)
And Steven Seagal is a great aikidoka who posesses Godly talent (8th dan) in kendo.
tora said:Gary sent down in the knockout!
Gary Gabelhouse said:Hello All,
I was passing on what was told me--personally. In a telephone conversation I had with Bob Wall, he made mention of the "choke-out" incident. He was just retelling anecdotes with regards to the martial arts and the motion picture industry. My teacher, John Roseberry-Hanshi knows Gene Labell personally and he, too, confirmed the event. Just passing on what I heard through personal communication--not what I have read on the Internet.
The incident in New York was, again, told to me personally and in a phone conversation I had with a body guard of Angelina Jolee who was in the club that night. He is now a foreign movie rights broker. We were discussing selling the movie rights to my novel. I brought up Seagal and Steamroller Productions--and that prompted his telling me of the New York club incident.
My teacher, who I explicitely trust, told me of Bruce Lee's unanswered challenge to Mike Stone. Kow Leung Ong-Sensei, long-time Goju Ryu Sensei in the Shoreikan Chinatown Dojo told me of Bruce Lee's defeats in Chinatown. That came in the form of a personal email message when we were discussing "the pioneers of martial arts in America."
These are the sources of my information. The contexts of such information was such that were purely conversational--with no one having anything at stake. Could it all be untrue? Possibly, but with the exception of Bob Wall, those involved in conveying the information are trusted, martial-artists I have known for decades and who would not lie to me. I must say, I was not totally taken with Bob Wall. He seemed a bit to bragadocious for my tastes. Also, he breached a business axiom I have which is to never swear during a business conversation. Even though I swear like a sailor, I do not swear during a business conversation.
Best Regards,
Gary Gabelhouse
Gary Gabelhouse said:Hello All,
I was passing on what was told me--personally. In a telephone conversation I had with Bob Wall, he made mention of the "choke-out" incident. He was just retelling anecdotes with regards to the martial arts and the motion picture industry. My teacher, John Roseberry-Hanshi knows Gene Labell personally and he, too, confirmed the event. Just passing on what I heard through personal communication--not what I have read on the Internet.
The incident in New York was, again, told to me personally and in a phone conversation I had with a body guard of Angelina Jolee who was in the club that night. He is now a foreign movie rights broker. We were discussing selling the movie rights to my novel. I brought up Seagal and Steamroller Productions--and that prompted his telling me of the New York club incident.
My teacher, who I explicitely trust, told me of Bruce Lee's unanswered challenge to Mike Stone. Kow Leung Ong-Sensei, long-time Goju Ryu Sensei in the Shoreikan Chinatown Dojo told me of Bruce Lee's defeats in Chinatown. That came in the form of a personal email message when we were discussing "the pioneers of martial arts in America."
These are the sources of my information. The contexts of such information was such that were purely conversational--with no one having anything at stake. Could it all be untrue? Possibly, but with the exception of Bob Wall, those involved in conveying the information are trusted, martial-artists I have known for decades and who would not lie to me. I must say, I was not totally taken with Bob Wall. He seemed a bit to bragadocious for my tastes. Also, he breached a business axiom I have which is to never swear during a business conversation. Even though I swear like a sailor, I do not swear during a business conversation.
Best Regards,
Gary Gabelhouse
yudansha said:Littledragon, perhaps I should intervene for awhile. Mr. Gabelhouse was just explaining what he had HEARD and was passing it along to us, martial arts enthusiasts, in case we were interested to know other stories going around. I don't think his intent was to put down or insult anybody's skills in any way. Although I also have to disagree and question this statement: "neither Lee nor Seagal are GREAT fighters." Other than that, I understand where both of you are coming from.
Lotussan said:I don't know what bearing size has in a real fight, but it must mean something...
yudansha said:Bruce Lee: he was approximately 70kg (about 155lbs.) and was seen by various witnesses to be able to pick up a 35kg (77lbs.) dumbbell in each hand, raise the arms to his shoulder height, and hold the weights for over 30 seconds. No other man (bodybuilder or not) could ever achieve such strength of ratios in weight lifting to body mass as Bruce Lee has. Bruce Lee, as part of his routine did push ups and was as much into bodybuilding as he was into karate (he started with wing chun kung fu, but wanted to acquire more energy and took up weight lifting by the influence of mucle structure that the body builders of the time had - Schwarzenegger was unknown to most in those times, 70s). Anyways, the push ups that Bruce Lee did were one handed. And get this: he did them on one finger. That's the strength you can only imagine. I tried and well, basically I am used to just one handed push ups, so this time my face was imprinted in the carpet.
And as Tora has said, it is no joke that Bruce Lee could concentrate all his power into a short distance, and just by being an inch or two away from you he would be able to make an impact that would send a man (or a woman) weighing over 100kg (220lbs.) to a distance 4-5 meters (about 12-15 feet) away.
That's only his upper body strength. Now his leg work was just as amazing, as he was able to advance a collision on a 120kg (264lbs.) suit case and make it airborne up to 3 meters into the air. And, talk about speed and fast movements: Bruce holds a record for being able to cover a meter of an empty space faster than anybody else in two hundredth of a second (0.02s). Even in Formula1 racing that's considered to be a relatively small difference in time lapse.
That's just some (... some ...) info on Bruce Lee's capabilities. So, don't go comparing him to Steven Seagal
gary gabelhouse said:Not wishing to cause heartburn, but neither Lee nor Seagal are GREAT fighters. Bruce Lee was regularly beat up when he visited Chinatown. Also, he refused numerous challenges. At the seminar/tournament in Long Beach, where he demonstrated his one-inch punch, my teacher and Mike Stone (one very GREAT fighter) were in the audience. After seeing Bruce Lee demonstrate, they challenged Lee to a no-holds barred fight. Lee deferred.