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As You Sow, So Shall You Reap (Karma)


New Member
What is karma and what is the association between karma and enlightenment? Is there such a thing as immediate enlightenment within the concept of karma?

Karma is what we call cause and effect. Whatever you sow, so shall you reap in the Bible, that is karma. Now, we can sow and we can reap, but then we can wipe off also. Therefore, Jesus, Buddha had to come to earth in order to help us to pay this terrible debt that we could not pay ourselves, which is called karma, which we sowed so many, now we reap so much. So some people like the Father, Son or the Buddha come down with unlimited merits, understand, and they can give anything you need, they can pay the debts for you. Because God is all merciful, limitless of grace and blessing, whatever you ask, you will get. If you knock, it will be opened.

Now mostly, we don't ask, we don't knock and we just knock our heads against the wall, so we get not much grace and blessing. And we think God is not merciful. God is. He always sends some of His messengers to the world like Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, etc. to save us, to lead us back home. Despite our karma, in spite of our heavy debt, they can take us home and we can get immediate enlightenment through such persons' grace.

For example, now we are born in a very poor family. Our family, generation to generation, has been poor like that and we can never have any hope to get any richer or to get any better situation in the society. But then along comes a prince or a very big officer, and he has so limitless wealth and he happens to chance on our family and he happens to like us or like our daughter, wants to marry her. Then, we become different people, we become a different family, our position will change. However much debt we owe to the neighbors, or to the landlord in our region, he will pay with his own money and take us to the palace.

Now God is similar to a very rich, wealthy, billion, billion, billionaire. Whoever calls on Him, He will cleanse all the sins and make us angels, make us God-like. Why is it possible? Because there's nothing impossible with God, anyhow. If He can create the whole universe, He can just take us home if He so desires. But then because we do not know where God is, and between God and us, there exists a very thick curtain of so-called karma, so He needs to send someone looking like us in order to go through and shake hands with us and say, "Hey, come."

God is so intangible, so abstract. Even though He appeared to us, we would not see. We are used to seeing illusion, we are used to seeing concrete forms. If God appeared, we could not know, we could not recognize. So we need someone who is expert to tell us, "Oh! Yeah, what you saw yesterday, that is God, or let me make you see God in a moment, or in five minutes you will see Him. When you see such and such and such, that is God who appeared to you in such a form, or in such energy, in such wisdom." Then we understand.

So, you can get immediate enlightenment for sure. No doubt about that. We can see God immediately because God is within us. In the Bible it is said:
Know you not, that you are the temple of God and the Holy Spirit dwells within you.

If He is within us, then we could immediately see Him, no doubt. It's just a question of know-how.


Wayne Fonseca
"Narrow is the way that leads to life, and broad is the way that leads to destruction and so many will walk therein." Jesus Christ


New Member
Jalu said:
Did you become instantly enlightened?
Would you say you are enlightened?
Hi Jalu,

We are all enlighted the day we came into this world, I am thankful that i have forgotten what it is like to be enlightened. Some people are born enlightened but they never know becuase they do not know what it is like to forget. I am back on this journey walk the path of God, the path of Truth. I am in the first stage of enlightenment.

All the scriptures emphasize that we find our own enlightenment, and all our sins will be washed away. It is as simple as the sun coming out and dispelling all the darkness. Otherwise, we have what the Bible calls the sins from our own ancestors, or what in Buddhism is called endless karma from previous lives, and we can never wash it off by our own mind efforts. We could not do it by charity or good deeds alone, or by bowing to the statue of Jesus or Buddha. We must do it in the correct way, using the light of God, the inborn heaven to dispel hell's darkness. Jesus also said, Whatever I do today you will do even greater in the future. This means that He and we are equal. He didn't say,' I alone can do all these miracles. You will never ever be able to do it. No, He said,' Whatever I can do you can do also.' That is a great liberal attitude, and Buddha also said, I have become Buddha and you will also become Buddha. If we follow the correct method, just like with a scientific method, everyone does the same thing and gets the same result.

Enlightenment is the process of knowing what is greater than life, what is greater than the things we can see with our physical eyes, or touch with our physical instruments. It is the moment when we begin to know something greater than that, the true governor of the whole universe, which is also within ourselves.

Everyone has the right to be enlightened, It is our birthright but it is your choice to wish for it or not. After having found our true enlightened nature, our greatness and our wisdom, we will change own selves. For myself, I do not change people. It is they who change because their true nature is exceptional; it is their nobility and their wisdom. And he who finds his true nature will rid himself of all negative habits. We have already been enlightened when we are came into this world as we grew up in society we forgot what it is like to be in union with the Source of all creation. Jesus said "Many are called but few are choosen".


Wayne Fonseca
"Do what you can, With what you have, Where you are"


New Member
Jalu said:

Define realization and enlightenment as you understand it.
Hi Jalu,

Enlightenment means inner awakening. You realize that you have a power that is much greater than what you use every day. Usually, we follow the directions of our ego, but after enlightenment, we follow God's will.

Enlightenment is a matter of realizing your true nature as Pure existence, consciousness and bliss. That realization is a profound shift away from the limited identity constructed by the ego. The difficulty can arise when the ego co-opts this spiritual perspective of unity consciousness and decides that if this is the ultimate truth, then that is my status and therefore” I am enlightened.” Such fantasizing based on half-truth can give rise to some professions of enlightenment. There are no absolute standards of external behavior by which enlightenment can be verified. The truth of one’s enlightenment is something that can only be confirmed within oneself. Looking at the experiences of other who have attained enlightenment written in the scriptures as a benchmark for the progress of your experiences is considered vital in the Vedic tradition. This helps spare the aspirant being side-tracked by the ego-delusion of pretending to be something one hasn’t fully attained yet.

There are seven states of consciousness
1. Dreaming State
2. Sleeping State
3. Waking State
4. The Ascendant State
5. Perpetual State (First stage of enlightenment)
6. Exalted State (Second stage of enlightenment)
7. Unity State (Last stage of enlightenment)

Self Realization - Self Realization the so-called “ah ha” experiences. we maintain self-referral consciousness 24 hours a day, whether we are awake, sleeping or dreaming. This is the experience of our Atman, or Higher Self, being present to all our relative mental states of experience. This quality of wakefulness doesn’t mean that we are wide-awake while we sleep. It means that the knower within is always aware of its own silent, infinite nature independent of whether we are asleep or awake. There are three relative states of consciousness: waking, dreaming, and sleep. The fourth is the experience of the Self when we have gone beyond all thought during meditation. When that fourth state of consciousness is permanent through practice, and is not lost while experiencing the other three states of consciousness, then we have attained Self-Realization, or Cosmic Consciousness. At this stage our jiva has realized its identity with Atman and the jiva is no longer subject to the cycle of birth and death.


Wayne Fonseca,
"We are spritual beings, having the human experiences"


Steve's Destiny
I will be brief....

"Those who have realization about delusions are buddhas,
Those who have delusions about realization are sentient beings."