Did the unthinkable (my Aikido journey)
- Thread starter TDWoj
- Start date
It was the arm twist-and-pin. While still upright, instead of turning towards nage, I turned away, and didn't relax my arm. Then when he brought me down, my other arm was underneath me so I couldn't tap the mat in time to make him stop. He ended up twisting it farther than it could go.
It's still sore, but not as much as it was. I should at least be able to practice ukemi when I go tonight.
They were practicing moves for the fifth kyu test coming up in April, so I would have been useless as uke anyhow.
It's still sore, but not as much as it was. I should at least be able to practice ukemi when I go tonight.
They were practicing moves for the fifth kyu test coming up in April, so I would have been useless as uke anyhow.
Amos Stevens
New Member
Or.."I DON'T WANT TO DIE"
I agree shihonage - but regardless of who's to blame, I always try my best to make sure I never get hurt. I've been around long enough to realize that there is a big difference in how people view safety and actually following that view. Therefore I always start out like my partner (nage or uke) doesn't know what he/she is doing regarding ukemi or safe technique execution goes. After establishing a trust between each other speed can be added.
Even if one can say that it was the other ones fault (and it can be!) it doesn't really give you your elbow back...
Always practice safe!!!
/J
Even if one can say that it was the other ones fault (and it can be!) it doesn't really give you your elbow back...
Always practice safe!!!
/J
shihonage
New Member
Well you see, Aikilove, we are somewhat experienced.
The injury has already occurred, and TDWoj is not experienced enough to know who's at fault. For example, in the first 6 months I fractured my wrist taking nikkyo ukemi, and it was my fault for being tense/resistant as uke. However if the said thing happened with shihonage, it would've been most likely the nage's fault as it is far easier for a moderate level nage to complete shihonage on resistant uke without suddenly CRANKING IT UP than it would be with nikkyo.
I remember this guy in his 60's, very New York-ish, who came to our beginner's class. He was very stiff and took every exercise as a confrontation. But he and I got along very well - I could see where he was coming from, and his stiffness didn't prevent me from throwing him, with moderate caution.
However one day I saw him run out of the dojo furious. He was fuming, he was a moment away from punching someone, anyone. The shodan he was paired with was being arrogant and kept throwing him in a way that injured his arm. At that point his rolling skills were on a "cardboard box" level, so the result was not surprising.
That is ironic because the shodan was much bigger than this guy.
Anyway, I was really taken aback by that outburst. Looking at the anger in his eyes, I realized at that point I may not ever see this guy in class again. So I said in hopeful tone - "I hope you will come next class."
He didn't.
So, I asked my initial question because I hate it when beginners get blamed or punished by bad nages, and I hoped an answer would clear up what happened and maybe allow me to suggest some immediate way to avoid this problem in the future.
This sort of thing is a lot more traumatizing for beginners than for us. They didn't figure out the whole unwritten rules of training that our bodies have memorized and we take for granted, and there ARE people who may abuse them while hiding behind authority.
The injury has already occurred, and TDWoj is not experienced enough to know who's at fault. For example, in the first 6 months I fractured my wrist taking nikkyo ukemi, and it was my fault for being tense/resistant as uke. However if the said thing happened with shihonage, it would've been most likely the nage's fault as it is far easier for a moderate level nage to complete shihonage on resistant uke without suddenly CRANKING IT UP than it would be with nikkyo.
I remember this guy in his 60's, very New York-ish, who came to our beginner's class. He was very stiff and took every exercise as a confrontation. But he and I got along very well - I could see where he was coming from, and his stiffness didn't prevent me from throwing him, with moderate caution.
However one day I saw him run out of the dojo furious. He was fuming, he was a moment away from punching someone, anyone. The shodan he was paired with was being arrogant and kept throwing him in a way that injured his arm. At that point his rolling skills were on a "cardboard box" level, so the result was not surprising.
That is ironic because the shodan was much bigger than this guy.
Anyway, I was really taken aback by that outburst. Looking at the anger in his eyes, I realized at that point I may not ever see this guy in class again. So I said in hopeful tone - "I hope you will come next class."
He didn't.
So, I asked my initial question because I hate it when beginners get blamed or punished by bad nages, and I hoped an answer would clear up what happened and maybe allow me to suggest some immediate way to avoid this problem in the future.
This sort of thing is a lot more traumatizing for beginners than for us. They didn't figure out the whole unwritten rules of training that our bodies have memorized and we take for granted, and there ARE people who may abuse them while hiding behind authority.
I agree again. That is why I said always practice safe, regardless if you are uke or nage.
Still if nage was to blame (e.g. experienced nage, unexperienced uke, uke doesn't do the "normal" ukemi, nage forces technique, uke gets injured etc.) then he or she should be severely talked to by the head instructor. It's not always this black or white however, which lead me to write what will keep one from injuries - make sure your partner understand what level you are at and always practice initially as if your partner didn't have any sense of safety. Noone will look down on you if you want to go slow.
/J
Still if nage was to blame (e.g. experienced nage, unexperienced uke, uke doesn't do the "normal" ukemi, nage forces technique, uke gets injured etc.) then he or she should be severely talked to by the head instructor. It's not always this black or white however, which lead me to write what will keep one from injuries - make sure your partner understand what level you are at and always practice initially as if your partner didn't have any sense of safety. Noone will look down on you if you want to go slow.
/J
Hi, guys. Interesting discussion!
It was nikkyo. What I have to do is learn to step more closely into nage instead of following my instincts and trying to "get away". That's the hardest part, so far.
Keep up the discussion, though - I need all the help I can get!
It was nikkyo. What I have to do is learn to step more closely into nage instead of following my instincts and trying to "get away". That's the hardest part, so far.
Keep up the discussion, though - I need all the help I can get!
shihonage
New Member
There's not much to discuss - nikkyo is one of the most injury-prone techniques to beginners. Try not to resist when one is cranked on you, and slap the mat as soon as you can. Also, don't stop when you're down. If the nikkyo is still being cranked by the sadist, be prepared to fall awkwardly between his legs. Its better than fracturing your wrist.
Seminar report:
It was fun! Mind you, I didn't last the whole weekend - my ankles gave out on me at noon on Saturday, so I sat the rest of the day out (they did weapons in the afternoon, anyway, and I haven't signed up for that class yet, although I can after my first 10 classes).
The visiting Sensei was just amazing to watch. He's 7th dan, and he, too, has physical problems - apparently, his neck and shoulders have seized up and he has no range of motion left in them. And yet, he was doing the most amazing things... how he managed, for example, to turn uke into a corkscrew without moving an inch completely boggled the mind.
At one point, he chose one of the newer students, who had only been doing this less than a year, as uke. You should have seen the look on her face - it was priceless. "I'm going to get killed" was clearly visible on every feature. Mind you, she had good ukemi, so she wasn't too battered at the end of the demo....
There was one guy who had gone to Japan to study, and you could see he had superior technique to a lot of the other black belts there. I mean, this guy definitely had The Force. I don't know how he did it, but whenever he was uke, I swear, he never touched the mat. It was like magic!
Me, well, that's another story. We were doing one technique and frankly, there was just no way a newbie like me was going to go flying through the air and land without breaking my neck. I weaselled out of it the first two times, and then tried it. I rolled... sort of.
It wasn't elegant, I can tell you. 
There were easily at least a hundred people there on Saturday, maybe about 60 on Sunday. All levels, although I think I and one other fellow from my dojo who started after I did were the only "beginners" there.
Some of the more experienced students, though, especially the black belts, had some ukemi techniques that were interesting. I noticed there were two kinds - those who didn't make a sound when being tossed around like wet noodles, and those who hit the mat, hard, with a lot of noise.
I preferred the wet noodle practitioners, myself. Seems to me it required less time to recover....
Had some nice comments from the more experienced students - apparently, I do some things well enough to surprise people when I told them I'd only been doing this for six weeks. Other things.... I said to the visiting Sensei afterward that there were some techniques requiring six hands and four feet, and how did one do them with only two of each? He thought that was funny.
He was seriously impressed by the bruise I got last Monday, too.
All in all, it was a pretty good and fun-filled, if exhausting, weekend. My only disappointment that there was no randori at the end of it.
I'm glad I went, actually; I was on the point of quitting last Thursday, and if I hadn't made the commitment to help out at the seminar, I probably would have quit.
-TD, still exhausted!
It was fun! Mind you, I didn't last the whole weekend - my ankles gave out on me at noon on Saturday, so I sat the rest of the day out (they did weapons in the afternoon, anyway, and I haven't signed up for that class yet, although I can after my first 10 classes).
The visiting Sensei was just amazing to watch. He's 7th dan, and he, too, has physical problems - apparently, his neck and shoulders have seized up and he has no range of motion left in them. And yet, he was doing the most amazing things... how he managed, for example, to turn uke into a corkscrew without moving an inch completely boggled the mind.
At one point, he chose one of the newer students, who had only been doing this less than a year, as uke. You should have seen the look on her face - it was priceless. "I'm going to get killed" was clearly visible on every feature. Mind you, she had good ukemi, so she wasn't too battered at the end of the demo....
There was one guy who had gone to Japan to study, and you could see he had superior technique to a lot of the other black belts there. I mean, this guy definitely had The Force. I don't know how he did it, but whenever he was uke, I swear, he never touched the mat. It was like magic!
Me, well, that's another story. We were doing one technique and frankly, there was just no way a newbie like me was going to go flying through the air and land without breaking my neck. I weaselled out of it the first two times, and then tried it. I rolled... sort of.
It wasn't elegant, I can tell you. There were easily at least a hundred people there on Saturday, maybe about 60 on Sunday. All levels, although I think I and one other fellow from my dojo who started after I did were the only "beginners" there.
Some of the more experienced students, though, especially the black belts, had some ukemi techniques that were interesting. I noticed there were two kinds - those who didn't make a sound when being tossed around like wet noodles, and those who hit the mat, hard, with a lot of noise.
I preferred the wet noodle practitioners, myself. Seems to me it required less time to recover....
Had some nice comments from the more experienced students - apparently, I do some things well enough to surprise people when I told them I'd only been doing this for six weeks. Other things.... I said to the visiting Sensei afterward that there were some techniques requiring six hands and four feet, and how did one do them with only two of each? He thought that was funny.
He was seriously impressed by the bruise I got last Monday, too.
All in all, it was a pretty good and fun-filled, if exhausting, weekend. My only disappointment that there was no randori at the end of it.
I'm glad I went, actually; I was on the point of quitting last Thursday, and if I hadn't made the commitment to help out at the seminar, I probably would have quit.
-TD, still exhausted!
Oh, I forgot to mention re: last night's class - I successfully did my first backward roll in ukemi practice! Whee!
It was funny, too, because of course, no one was watching when I did it, so I sat rather dazed on the mat for a second, muttering, "I did it! I did it!" And then when people realised what I was saying, of course, everyone stopped and stared at me, and of course I couldn't do it while they watched... but then I did it again! Whee!
I definitely have a weak side, though - any time I have to use my right leg (that's the one with the bad hip), the technique doesn't work as well. I'm going to have to do two using that leg for every one I do on the other side; maybe that will help.
Still can't do a forward roll well, though.
And I just found out I have to take my first test after forty hours. I've already got twenty hours.... yikes!
It was funny, too, because of course, no one was watching when I did it, so I sat rather dazed on the mat for a second, muttering, "I did it! I did it!" And then when people realised what I was saying, of course, everyone stopped and stared at me, and of course I couldn't do it while they watched... but then I did it again! Whee!
I definitely have a weak side, though - any time I have to use my right leg (that's the one with the bad hip), the technique doesn't work as well. I'm going to have to do two using that leg for every one I do on the other side; maybe that will help.
Still can't do a forward roll well, though.
And I just found out I have to take my first test after forty hours. I've already got twenty hours.... yikes!
Amos Stevens
New Member
Hey TD survived! I can help ya out with those forward rolls..I will just wrap ya up in yarn & throw ya like a ball-ought to do the trick 
Seriously,you do the best you can do-everybody can't do the same motion the same way
Seriously,you do the best you can do-everybody can't do the same motion the same way
pantera said:don't woory we all have a weaker side!
But keep it up.
Trouble is, my "weaker side" is both! My right hip is a problem, and my left shoulder is a problem because of an injury I had when I was twelve years old. Gimpy on two sides... it just isn't fair!
I'm feeling a bit sore today, though....
ow.