How effective would aikido be in a cage or ring?

tenshinaikidoka

Martial Art Student
The problem is cage fighting/MMA fighting have rules which would disallow Aikido techniques. I have been doing Aikido many many many years, and have trained with some great Sensei and even studied under a certain Shihan : ) but the main point is this, the rules prohibit the joint locks that would make Aikido effective.

I have been in some real brawls (due to my job) and can say without a doubt, it was my Aikido that "won" them, and I also study Judo and BJJ regularly on top of teaching Aikido. these are my opinions and mine alone however. I do not nor can I diswade anyone from thinking different. We must each gain knowledge from different experiences, I am just fortunate enough to have gained first hand knowledge that Aikido really does kick booty!!!!
 

Donald Lee Wilkey

A Steven Seagal fan
tenshinaikidoka;205478 said:
The problem is cage fighting/MMA fighting have rules which would disallow Aikido techniques. I have been doing Aikido many many many years, and have trained with some great Sensei and even studied under a certain Shihan : ) but the main point is this, the rules prohibit the joint locks that would make Aikido effective.

I have been in some real brawls (due to my job) and can say without a doubt, it was my Aikido that "won" them, and I also study Judo and BJJ regularly on top of teaching Aikido. these are my opinions and mine alone however. I do not nor can I diswade anyone from thinking different. We must each gain knowledge from different experiences, I am just fortunate enough to have gained first hand knowledge that Aikido really does kick booty!!!!

What's the difference between Aikido joint locks and cage fight sumbission holds(leg or arm or overextending the joint tendons)? This is what doesn't make sense in MMA rules???? A fighter can use submission holds, but just not Aikido joint locks, something wrong here????
 

tenshinaikidoka

Martial Art Student
I agree Don, and I am not sure why certain rules are in place because, as you pointed out, submissions/chokes are dangerous in and of themselves. Alot of arm bars (juji gatami) are also used but several joint and bone locking techniques are prohibited. Again, I do not know why, but it would be good to see a Nikkyu or Sankyu technique!!!! I just think in the ring it is impracticle as well, do to gloves being worn and not a lot of grabbing occurs which could potentially lead into techniques!! I would have to find some of the rules again but there were some that really stuck out when I read it and how it would disallow Aikido techniques!!!
 

Zhuangzizhou

New Member
Aikido is not practical in a real fight, unless the attacker simply bum rushes you like a drunk. I used to study Aikido. I now study Kali/Escrima and Jeet Kune Do. I would guess that Seagal himself realised that straight Aikido is not all that combat effective, and that this is why he modified it so much. His own martial technique employs quite a bit of Kali and Karate, not just Aikido.
 

Donald Lee Wilkey

A Steven Seagal fan
Zhuangzizhou;205561 said:
Aikido is not practical in a real fight, unless the attacker simply bum rushes you like a drunk. I used to study Aikido. I now study Kali/Escrima and Jeet Kune Do. I would guess that Seagal himself realised that straight Aikido is not all that combat effective, and that this is why he modified it so much. His own martial technique employs quite a bit of Kali and Karate, not just Aikido.

So, then at your level of learning aikido, you'd conclude aikido techniques as ineffective against the brawny, charging raging mma/ufc fighter coming towards an aikidoka in a ring or cage?

Maybe, aikido dojos don't have training for 'up against the wall' atmospheres in this day and age?
 

tenshinaikidoka

Martial Art Student
Zhuangzizhou;205561 said:
Aikido is not practical in a real fight, unless the attacker simply bum rushes you like a drunk. I used to study Aikido. I now study Kali/Escrima and Jeet Kune Do. I would guess that Seagal himself realised that straight Aikido is not all that combat effective, and that this is why he modified it so much. His own martial technique employs quite a bit of Kali and Karate, not just Aikido.

I call BS on this for many reasons. How long did you study Aikido??? What particular flavor of Aikido did your dojo practice? What was the main motive for you studying Aikido and who were your Sensei under? I ask for specific reason. I have been studying Aikido for well over 15 years. I have trained under sensei who do Aikido for self defense, not show and not flash. I started to study because I wanted to be able to defend myself from multiple attackers and because I liked what I saw when I would see demo's. My Sensei have been under Isoyama Shihan and Take Sensei himself.

I myself, have unfortunately, been in an actual knock out drag out street fight where the person was very intent on hurting me. My Aikido prevailed and I dealt with the situation using Aikido techniques, and this person was very very aggressive, but didn't "charge" me just flat out attacked me with all he had. Of course I did not come out unscratched but he definately came out at the bottom end of the stick, I can assure you (as a side note, anyone who thinks they will never get hurt in a street fight, no matter what they know, is fooling themselves....nothing makes you untouchable).

Seagal has not "changed" anything in Aikido, and this is the absolute misconception that people have, that they see this flashy dancy stuff and assume that when they see Seagal Shihan doing it, that he must have changed something. Nothing could be further from the truth. Aikido, real Aikido has strikes, kicks and everything else you see Seagal Shihan doing. If you look at O'Sensei's early pre-war video (and those of his pre-war students) you will see very hard hitting brutal Aikido. Yoshinkan Aikido, is a pre-war Aikido branch that is very very brutal and doesn't have the flash that you see with the latter styles (post-war Aikido) but it does have alot of the hard hitting moves and techniques that Seagal does in his own Aikido.

I hope this is not taken as a slam on you or anyone else with preconceived notions relating to Aikido or what Seagal Shihan (Take Sensei) does either when he teaches actual Aikido or does moves in movies. But Seagal Shihan has done Aikido, Judo and Karate. His movie moves are choreographed with others doing the majority of the choreographing. He is a 7th Dan Shihan ranked in the Aikikai and is well respected for the most part in the Aikido community. Anyway...I digress!!!!!! Domo!!!
 

johanz

johanz
Aikido wont work in a figh and no other budo style at all will ever work in fight without modifiction.
They are only to be used in selfdefense purpose and will only work when the attacker is not close in distance.
For an example the most styles work fine if somone coming from distanse and trying to kick or punch you.
If youre in a close range combat/fight with ure oppnent you have to raise youre guard to protect ure head,,thats NR 1.
No one will ever manage to block a punch in close fight with a inside or a outside hand defence.
Thats a fact.
Im training krav Maga and if my attacker coming from far away i have plenty of time to use alots of technics,,,but in close combat u HAVE to use a guard like they do in Boxing and Thaiboxing.
No one is that fast that with their arms in a position in the center of body will manage to block any attack on head.
Not even Mr.Seagal.
 

Kotegashi

Master Of Disaster
Staff member
@johanz. Your views on the effectiveness of martial arts is quite wrong.
I personally don't have experience in Krav Maga, but what i know of it is that krav maga focusses on fast, explosive techniques in close combat.

Furthermore there are numerous martial arts that have full contact competition where they prove their art effective in short distance. Beeing further apart allows for more beauty in a technique but these techniques usually have a lesser impact and lack power.

Karate, tae kwondo, jiu jitsu, ninjitsu and many others all focus on blocking/guarding and counter attacking in close combat. Speed and power make their strikes and kicks extremely effective.

Aikido is learned by practicing with oncoming attacks from a bit of a distance, but experienced masts (like Seagal) can easily applytechniques effectively in close combat.

Lastly i want to point out as i stated earlier that one martial art is unlikely to make you win in a street or cage/ring fight. Only by mastering several martial arts you can combine techniques and use defensive techniques from and combine it with an attack from another.

Seagal has studied several martial arts and he has proven many times to be extremely fast with his hands and techniques

Peace
 

Seagal1969

Active Member
To Donald Lee Wilkey: Can you tell me from what event was the photo of Clint Eastwood and Steven Segal taken?

I discovered the Eastwood/Seagal picture on wireimage.com a couple of months ago and posted it in this forum.

The event is "Showwest 1995 in Las Vegas".

Showwest is a event where a lot of movie stars from Warner Brothers come together to promote their upcoming films.

Seagal was there to promote "Under Siege 2". Stallone was there to promote "Assassins". Arnold Schwarzenegger was there to promote "Eraser". Those were all Warner movies.

That is the reason why all those stars were there........
 
As a whole, Aikido would not be effective in a "sport fighting" match. However, some of the concepts like kuzushi and irimi would be a benefit to any cage/ring/mma fighter.
 

Max1

New Member
Primero me presento, mi nombre es Maximiliano, por supuesto practicante de Aikido, no escribo en ingles porque es malo, respecto a este tema, son dos cosas totalmente distintas, algunas cosas podrian ser aplicables al MMA, pero en general me parece dificil. Saludos.
 
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