Inside Move: Franchise cleaned out? !!

Reservoir Dog

MRKD4DTH
I hope not too

But today's news explains the info you got yesterday. I am pretty much convinced this will be DTV, unless something strange happens
 

yudansha

TheGreatOne
Not very good news ... but thanks for the article.

One question though; why are you so damned sure that if this film does not go theatrical, that SS will never get another opportunity for a big film?
 

Reservoir Dog

MRKD4DTH
Me?

This film had a huge budget. There not going to let a 16 million dollar movie into theatres, like Submerged. Its all about money at the end of the day, but his comedy may very well go to theatres. And then theres always US3. If any of those are made and go theatrical, of course he will be back in theatres?
 

Reservoir Dog

MRKD4DTH
Ok...

The man is 53 years old, and this is the second time a 35 million dollar picture of his has gone DTV(if it actually does) after The Patriot. It is the third time a Seagal picture planned for the big screen has gone DTV after being planned for the big screen (The Foreigner). Unless Seagal has an amazing team of agents, how are they going to keep convincing big companies to release flicks if it is a high risk investment?
 

TDWoj

Administrator
Staff member
The trouble is, the scripts are poor, the production is shoddy, and Steven's lack of participation in his own films (exemplified by the voice dubbing and stunt doubles) are all contributing to Steven's big screen demise, age and weight notwithstanding.

I'm fully convinced he can make a big screen comeback if he wanted to, badly enough - and if he has the right people in his corner to convince him to take the right project, which I suspect he doesn't. I think that's why he's going to go the comedy route to do that (still wondering what "The Onion Movie" is going to be all about; apparently it's connected to The Onion satire publication which I've never cared for), and leave off making action films.

Let's face it, action films as we know and love them, without wires or fancy cgi effects, are a thing of the past. If Steven doesn't get a decent script, with a major studio's backing, a decent director and if he doesn't participate fully in the making of the film (dubbing, doubles and whatever else he hasn't been contributing, like music, for example), we won't be seeing him on the big screen in an action movie, again.
 
The collapse of Franchise doesn't necessarily mean Into the Sun won't hit theatres. Back in 1996 Savoy Pictures went belly up, but their last five movies were all given a theatrical release after the fact (all of them were bombs though).

If Franchise does go to the big studio in the sky it really comes as no surprise. They've made dozens of big budget flops and they've only had one hit movie (The Whole Nine Yards).

They kind of brought it on themselves, I mean who gets Steven Seagal, fresh off his hit Exit Wounds, and puts him in a PG-13 rip off of The Rock and Die Hard anyway?
 

Reservoir Dog

MRKD4DTH
Couldnt agree more...

TDWoj said:
The trouble is, the scripts are poor, the production is shoddy, and Steven's lack of participation in his own films (exemplified by the voice dubbing and stunt doubles) are all contributing to Steven's big screen demise, age and weight notwithstanding.

I'm fully convinced he can make a big screen comeback if he wanted to, badly enough - and if he has the right people in his corner to convince him to take the right project, which I suspect he doesn't. I think that's why he's going to go the comedy route to do that (still wondering what "The Onion Movie" is going to be all about; apparently it's connected to The Onion satire publication which I've never cared for), and leave off making action films.

Let's face it, action films as we know and love them, without wires or fancy cgi effects, are a thing of the past. If Steven doesn't get a decent script, with a major studio's backing, a decent director and if he doesn't participate fully in the making of the film (dubbing, doubles and whatever else he hasn't been contributing, like music, for example), we won't be seeing him on the big screen in an action movie, again.


But i dont think his comedy career will be succesful enough to warrant him stopping his traditional action films completely.
 

yudansha

TheGreatOne
What comedy career?

I don't think that SS will be portrayed as a comedian.
I do think that "The Untitled Onion Movie" is based on that satirical "The Onion" online production ... I don't know how good it is though.

You might not like that 'wire-fu' ... I happen to enjoy it as many people do and that makes such films successful as that's how business is made. That's how actors have to adapt to their ever changing movie careers.

The direct-to-video movies are done kind of like in an assembly line because they've got low budget and time is always big money ... so nobody has time to stick around so long in post production to perfect the straight-to-video flick ... if so much time was committed to such, you'd be seeing the movie on the big screen. Everything and everyone in business is boung by contracts ... it's all about money ... nobody does extra work for nothing, because it's not good business.
 

Reservoir Dog

MRKD4DTH
What comedy career?

How about the new one he is trying to start. Mountain Dew commercial, Onion Movie, Untitled Zucker film. Three comedy features in a row. But how would I know, I dont know comedy... Maybe that mountain dew commercial was more of a horror film. Drama? Mystery?
 

TDWoj

Administrator
Staff member
But even movies made for tv are mostly watchable, and their budgets are nothing like those of theatrical releases. There's nothing to prevent a low budget film from being a good film except for the effort (or lack thereof) that goes into it.
 

Lotussan

I Belong To Steven
I wish him the best, and no-one knows what will happen...
Well, if anyone does they aren't telling us, but I would hope that this won't be so bad for him...
I think he has a lot to offer, he's just had some difficulties...
Not knowing what they are, we can't say that there is no hope for box office movies...
I certainly hope there will be many more of them...
I know Steven is very determined, and I think he loves his work, so let's not say these types of things...
 

yudansha

TheGreatOne
Made-for-tv vs. stv (dtv)

The made-for-tv movies are those that will be watched by many more viewers and more likely than those made direct-to-video. If you notice, the actors for made-for-tv movies have 'bigger' names than most of those who made STVs. That's the reason why these 'made-for-tv' movies are some times more 'watchable.'

"There's nothing to prevent a low budget film from being a good film except for the effort (or lack thereof) that goes into it."

TD could you give me some titles of such? I'd like to see these.
The problem is, if it's an action film and you have no money, there won't be much action, and thus as an action film it won't succeed. Same goes for horror ... as you need special effects to add to the mood. I can see low-budget comedies being good, but then again there are these things called sit-coms.

Res.Dog you have no idea on the type of role that SS will have in one of the films that are classified as comedy. Just because SS had a funny commercial, that doesn't make Seagal a comedian, and for sure does not mean that he will land roles in big comedies (or small comedies for that matter). The commercial needs to be good. One way to make it look good is to make it funny. If the commercial appeals to the audience in that way than they'll more likely go and 'investigate' the advertised product and in turn provide the company with more sales.
 

Reservoir Dog

MRKD4DTH
You are right

i have no idea what Seagal will do with his career next. No one does, but obviously some think they have the authority to comment on it more than others do. By the way, are you involved in the entertainment industry? You seem to know a lot about it, or at least claim that you do...
 

yudansha

TheGreatOne
It's public knowledge .. if you chose not to look into it .. u don't know some things

I have NEVER claimed to be involved in this industry. I am involved in others ... that follow same guidelines however. Knowing a thing or two about business and economy does not mean direct involvement in entertainment however. Again with the assumptions ...
 

TOF1977

Steven Seagal Fan
I hope everything works out. Steven Seagal is one of my fave actors. I pre-order his latest film, cant wait until July 20th to get it.
 

Lotussan

I Belong To Steven
He is the best for me, I can't wait, either...
I ordered it already, too, but I will rent if
I don't get it before the store does...
 

TDWoj

Administrator
Staff member
Low budget film? Any critically-acclaimed Canadian film you can name. For another, Narc.

Lots of people are under the misconception that you need a big budget to make action films these days. Quite the contrary. Look at Out for a Kill, for example. That was low budget, yet it had lots of action, car chases, all the elements that should have made a good action film, except for the lousy direction and truly putrid script. You don't need a big budget (especially when the star is wearing his own clothes throughout most of it) to pay attention to details, like wearing the proper clothes while engaging in an archeological dig, for example. Or having a script where every line makes one cringe at the sheer awfulness of it. If Out for a Kill had had a decent script to start with, Oblowitz might still have made a hash out of it, but not as much as he actually did.

Low budget does not automatically mean the film has to be bad, or straight to video. If one pays attention to the details, one can make quite a passable film on a fairly low budget. Unfortunately, it's lack of attention to details that is making Steven's recent films so dreadful (at worst) or mediocre (at best).

Dubbing, for instance. This is the digital age, for heaven's sake; all Steven has to do is rent a studio for an hour, record the dialogue, and have the techies digitise it and upload it to the post-production ftp site, which would take less than a day to complete. Even at a budget of $15 million, this is doable at a fairly reasonable cost. Steven can do this even if he's half a world away working on another project. If he cared.

The problem is, Steven clearly doesn't care. He's making these movies, putting in the minimum amount of effort for the maximum amount of money he can get. Once he walks off the set on the last day, that's the last of his involvement in the film. If there are necessary voiceovers, or dialogue that needs to be re-recorded, don't call him - call the vocal stand-in.

And what about his involvement in other aspects of the films he's been making? Clearly, he no longer choreographs the fight scenes, or the monkey-fu guy and all the fancy and the mostly stunt doubles fighting in Belly of the Beast would never have been done. He used to take pride in showing his expertise on screen. Now he just shows up for posing at the end of fight sequences whilst someone else does the work. Is that what we, his audience and die-hard fans pay to see - stunt doubles? No - I pay to see Steven fight, not some poxy stunt double that doesn't even come close to resembling either his physique or style.

And the music - when was the last time he was involved in the music of his films? Ticker, I think it was.

What was he paid for doing Belly of the Beast - about $3 million? I don't think he did anywheres near $3 million worth of work in that film, or in any film since Exit Wounds.

The films he's done recently are low budget and bad, and he doesn't care how bad they are as long as he gets the paycheque. And yet, those films didn't have to be as bad as they were. It's just obvious that no one, particularly Steven whose name is splashed all over the film as a selling point, gave a damn about doing the best they could with what they had.

-TD, being constructively critical
 
TD's right about the dubbing thing. I have a friend who makes commercials (which are cheap) and when he needs someone's voice redubbed he simply calls them up, gets them to say the line through the phone, records, redigitises it and places it on the film. Takes about two hours. If a five thousand dollar ad can do that surely a 15 million movie could afford the same???
 
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