Seagal Interview In Thailand

Lotussan

I Belong To Steven
Thanks MMCK2,
That was really great...:)
I think I had seen a bit before, but not sure, thanks for posting this...
 

Lotussan

I Belong To Steven
Hi Amos, do you know what's wrong with
Tora's e-mail?
I can't seem to send her one...
Oh well...
 

Hallarian

New Member
Middle east and Asia

I agree mostly with Steven but wouldn't cut off all aid. I find the people I meet over there think we consider them all ignorant and primitive. They feel we enter the affairs of other nations to further our own profits especially in Iraq. Afghanistan is a special case but I think we should seriously evaluate how much and how long we should be there. Iraqis can't be made to accept a democratic system so quickly and will increasingly resist our being there even when we save lives. Note they are killing the medical people now, blow up hospitals for Iraqi paralyzed patients. I speak from experience and I will continue to go over and provide the help I can. I don't carry a gun. And yes i have been shot at. I am recovering from my latest misadventure now. Incidentally I was rescued by Indian friends who risked themselves. So please don't write all of these good people off as something evil.
:rolleyes: Of course some will think I'm nuts anyway.

May I add how much I appreciate this clean place to visit. I look in on Alec Baldwin's place and the slander and nasty language is awful. Our monitors are great and yes I believe and fight for free speech.
 

Mama San

Administrator
It saddens me to read what (he had to say?)!
But if they were his words, then I hope that none of our boys in Iraq and Afghanistan, fighting for the freedom of the Iraqi and Alfghan people, ever have to see it.
Americans, and many others, don't like dictators nor
do we approve of any peoples being denied their freedom. No one should ever have to live under the threat of any personal or family harm.
I'm sorry but right now I'm wondering just where his loyalties lie and it hurts!
God bless,
Mama san
 

Disciple

come get some
His stance on the issue doesn't surprise me at all. He always was left of centre in his lifestyle and beliefs. More power to him!
 
I always though that he was one of the movie stars that supported The war in Iraq along with Bruce Willis and Van Damm.. From what i have heard he swung more to the Republican side politically and supported Bush..
 

TDWoj

Administrator
Staff member
I had written a really good answer last night, but the board timed out on me and I lost it. I'll try to recall the highlights.

I think Steven's loyalties lie with people, rather than political boundaries, and that people, everywhere, be allowed to live without interference by anyone, and especially be allowed to determine their own destiny.

As far as I can tell from his own comments, he believes that Manifest Destiny as what defines the American identity has had its day. At best, it was a noble ideal, but it was an ideal that was - and is - too easily corrupted into something far less noble, and possibly more sinister. "Saving the world for democracy" is no more than a smoke screen these days for other agendas having little or nothing to do with freeing people from tyranny.

His contention is that US involvement in the affairs of political regions outside US borders has resulted in the destabilisation of those regions and contributed to more rather than less strife. Evidence would suggest that he's right.

Going to Afghanistan was not to free the Afghanis from the Taliban; it was revenge for 9/11. Freeing the Afghanis from Taliban rule was only incidental to the main objective, and that was to swat Osama bin Laden.

(Who, to date, has yet to be found and swatted, you will note, and what Steven obliquely refers to.)

What Steven seems to be saying is that people should be allowed to live and let live, without outside interference, except in exceptional circumstances as regards human rights. He is not dissing the soldiers who only do what they're told to do, and go where they're told to go; he's taking to task the political machine that sends these soldiers where they are neither wanted nor welcomed.

I doubt if Steven has ever read any Isaac Asimov, but Asimov said, and Steven seems to agree, that, "Violence is the last resort of the incompetent." (at least insofar as international affairs are concerned). Steven obviously thinks that it's better to negotiate than to go in and kill people, just to prove a point - that they can. (Which is completely opposite to what he does in his films, and I find that interesting.)

I can well see how his views would be unpopular given the political climate following 9/11. I think he's got a lot of guts to say what he did, since it does go against the grain of what many Americans believe, post 9/11 and post Iraq.

Good for him.

Who was it that said, "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." (was that Daniel Webster?). I'm curious as to why it does NOT seem to be okay to say what is on one's mind, especially if it is counter to popular opinion; moreover, that the person speaking thus is suddenly no longer to be respected if the opinion given is not in step with one's own.

I think if one delves deeper into the meaning behind Steven's words, one will find someone who doesn't think in terms of loyalty to artificial political boundaries as much as faith that people will find in themselves the strength to work towards the best way to lead their lives in peace and harmony, without resorting to violence.

-TD, offering an interpretation of Steven's comments
 

Disciple

come get some
Couple of things to take into consideration:

the overall message from Above the Law, especially his speech leading up to the famous "you guys think you're above the law" quote.. it's a heavily political movie

the strong environmental/big business message from On Deadly Ground and Fire Down Below. It's the kind of thing Ralph Nader has been talking about for years.

Seagal's Buddhism and complete adoption of Eastern ways such as chinese medicine, which tend to be laughed at by your average meat and potatoes republican type (I once heard a conservative friend say "I'd rather be a nudist than a Buddhist"!)

... all of it goes to paint a picture of the man, which is why his comments here don't surprise me. In fact the only "visible" thing I've seen that he shares with right wingers is a love of guns, and (if the articles are to be believed) hunting.
 

TDWoj

Administrator
Staff member
Ah, you can take the boy out of redneck country, but you can't take the redneck out of the boy.

<grin>

-TD, ducking and running for cover
 

Gino Felino

Registered User
Im going to get hated on for this one but here goes...
First of all Seagal's zen, let people live there lives view of things is bogus. I dont see him liveing in iraq watching murders and rapes in the streets everyday. Im sick of all the hippie peace loving ****ers out there that keep blaming usa for getting involved when we are the only people with the balls to do whats right. Sure peace on earth would be great but with Saddam and Bitch Ladden around its not going to happen. Im not so mad about Canada booing usa teams at sporting events, or even the french trying to be tough. Its the people in the usa and uk that are burning flags and not suporting our guys over seas. If you dont like living here, leave. Abusing the freedom of speach to speww such anti war crap anoys me when the people we are trying to help dont even have that freedom.
Ive spoken my mind and i still am a huge seagal fan but i dont like his views on things
 

Lonewolf

Semper Fi
Hi Casey!
I am very happy to hear you're there,are you Casey?
I guess so?
Can I hug you like I hug my own Mum?
Peace!
Lonewolf
 

Hallarian

New Member
To Casey on the Middle East:

Mama san et al.
I want people to know I am a loyal American and have many American friends serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. Perhaps I am blind to some facts but I feel very few in our government understand the Middle East or Asia.

Near East::: Centuries a go members of my family from England went to the Middle East as members of the crusades. The stated goal was protection of the faith. The actual reason was for riches and one became a minor kinglet of one little seaport castle. In the 1800 England and France again divided up the Middle east into spheres of influence and repeated it again during the First World War. In WW I and II the Arabs were promised a lot and not one promise was kept plus we helped establish Israel which was good for some (the jews did need a country) but perhaps in the wrong place.

Does any of this history make for trust of Americans or Europeans there now. Many young military people coming home now are upset. They went to provide freedom and find they are hated over there.

Afghanistan:: has never been a unified country even under the Agha Khan. In the 1800's the British Army coming from India/ Pakistan and the Czarist Russians invading from the North to “free” the Afghans but more likely just for territory and wealth. The primitive Afghans mostly of the Pathan tribes destroyed both large armies despite more modern weapons and very few men ever made it home. The Czars never tried it again but the Communist USSR invaded which turned into something like Viet Nam was for us. That failure brought down the communist government. We must be very patient with the Afghans attempts to set up a modern constitutional government.

India was once several little countries but is slowly developing into a constitutional government since freeing themselves from Britain. Unfortunately they have a lot of graft, assassinations, and small fights between religious groups but I have more hope for them than the others. I admit I know the Indians a little better. Incidentally I believe one should never buy carpets from there unless you are absolutely certain they are not woven by slave children. If you ever see one illegal carpet factory you will remember it all your life and be very angry (as I am).

The east is complicated and their problems require a lot of thinking before jumping in.

Casey I agree with much you have written. you are my friend and friends can disagree I hope without breaking up their friendships.
H
 

TDWoj

Administrator
Staff member
There's going to be a documentary on CBC (I think it's CBC) this week by Alexandre Trudeau (also known as Sascha, and yes, he's the late Prime Minster Pierre Elliott Trudeau's son) who spent the war in Iraq with a family living in Baghdad, so he got to see it from the perspective of the ordinary person, not, like some other journalists, from the back of a military vehicle. It will be interesting to see the war in Iraq from this point of view. It will also be interesting to see if Gino's assertions about rapine in the streets will be validated.

The documentary should be interesting. I hope I can watch it, or at least tape it to watch later.

As for people supporting or not supporting soldiers overseas, it is unfortunate that it is often the soldier who gets the blame for the actions of the political machine that got him into the conflict in the first place.

It would do to consider that the face of war has changed. No longer do all people believe wholly and unquestioningly in the rightness of military conflict as a means to dealing with "the enemy". Part of the problem is that there is rarely a clear-cut "enemy" to be waging war on. As much as the propaganda machine tries to rev up patriotic feelings over sending soldiers off to die, too many people are questioning the "why" of it. The world is not as simple as it used to be (or used to appear to be). People are more likely to stop and demand reflection before sending soldiers off to fight, because it's no longer clear-cut about what it is the soldiers are being sent off to fight for. I think Viet Nam was the war that started people asking questions about the rightness or wrongness of sending troops into a country that didn't ask and doesn't want them there, all for a tarnished ideal that never really held up well in the light of day.

It also does not do to forget that the United Nations sends soldiers from its member countries into war-torn areas to keep the peace. That's the Canadian ideal, to keep the peace, rather than to participate in war, that is sadly being eroded as direct military action taken by one country against another becomes increasingly more appealing.

War never solves any problems. It just kills a lot of people needlessly, and foments more hatred, more conflict, more bitterness, especially if one is on the losing side. The only reason we keep on having wars is to convince ourselves that it will never happen again - after this one.

-TD, daughter of a concentration camp survivor
 

katrina102457

New Member
I have to agree with Mama San. I do not agree with a lot of the decisions that our President has made, But I believe every American should just stop for 1 minute of their day and realize we are being protected by brave men & women that doesn't particulary want to be there either. Yet they ARE there....and to them I salute you! kat:)
 

GlimmerMan

Huge Member
I agree that everyone has the right to defend themselves and I applaud the courage of the men (and women) who put their lives on the line fighting for their country. But let's not kid ourselves here - the recent wars haven't been fought to 'free the good people from oppressive regimes' - like TD said - the war in Afghanistan was revenge for 9/11 and, in my opinion, the recent war in Iraq was for oil, plain and simple.
 

katrina102457

New Member
GlimmerMan said:
I agree that everyone has the right to defend themselves and I applaud the courage of the men (and women) who put their lives on the line fighting for their country. But let's not kid ourselves here - the recent wars haven't been fought to 'free the good people from oppressive regimes' - like TD said - the war in Afghanistan was revenge for 9/11 and, in my opinion, the recent war in Iraq was for oil, plain and simple.
Yes glimmer, on that point I have to agree you are right! kat:)
 

Amos Stevens

New Member
Not wanting to take this topic off who knows where,but I thought I would comment that the way I look at it,we're sent over to Iraq to help free the people..ok-we did what we could..now we are no longer wanted & only have become sitting ducks!
 

Mama San

Administrator
Lonewolf said:
Hi Casey!
I am very happy to hear you're there,are you Casey?
I guess so?
Can I hug you like I hug my own Mum?
Peace!
Lonewolf
Hey! Lonewolf!!!!
How are you? Glad to see you made it!!
Yep! It's me, Casey!!
Hugs are always welcome, anytime, anywhere!!
Welcome to the board!!!
God bless,
Mama san
 
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