Littledragon
Above The Law
yudansha said:
This proves his control mind over body, btw you might not think it proves anything so what, he still is one of the best fighters alive.
Peace
The Greatest Fighter Alive Today!
- Thread starter Littledragon
- Start date
This proves his control mind over body, btw you might not think it proves anything so what, he still is one of the best fighters alive.
Peace
Littledragon
Above The Law
yudansha said:
Cool!!! ;-)
Flashgalaxy
Cupcake
littledragon869 said:
Nope...i was only kidding...anyway i tried to download a clip of him fighting but unsuccessful. Seagal would be able to beat him only in the movies if Rickson stars as the villian..
Littledragon
Above The Law
Flashgalaxy said:
Ye very true in a real fight Rickson would trample over Seagal, in the movies maybe not ;-)
Littledragon
Above The Law
Flashgalaxy said:
Buy the dvd called CHOKE
and buy PRIDE he fights against japan's greatest wrestler...
Littledragon
Above The Law
tora said:And buy PRINCE...He'll sing you a song while you're gonna be watching these two.
Exaclty!!!
This whole talk of “the world’s greatest living fighter” is just down right funny!
I can’t believe you sit there and say this guy is the best and then all you do is compare him to movie stars!
“over 400 fights in and out of the ring and on the street never been defeated, challeneged everyone from Benny Urquidez, Van Damme, Mike Tson. Hands down the greatest fighter who is living today!”~littleDragon869
WOW!!! Lets look at these people. I can’t even believe you listed Van Damme as one of the greatest fighters in the world. Hell I could beat Van Damme with one arm tied behind my back. Mike Tson is a boxer, no big deal there. (granted better than Van Damme but just about everybody is) Most all movie stars are NOT all that great at fighting. Jet Li said himself that he is really good with forms but wouldn’t have the first idea what to do in a real fight, and would probable get his butt kicked. Jet Li said that in an interview on the “Kiss of the Dragon” DVD. Seagal is hands down the best martial artist Hollywood has EVER seen, but even Seagal is not the best Aikidoka the world has to offer. Hombu Dojo has a LOT people there that would eat Seagal.
If Rickson wants to test his metal he should go fight people like Sifu Emin Bozpete, or jot over to Hombu and start something (Japan is recognized as having the world’s best police force and most of Japan’s police train at Hombu, people have died at that school), or maybe go down to Thailand and get into a fight with some of those Thailand Thai-boxers (people die in those competitions). As far as using iriminage to deal with a BJJ guy shooting on you, I don’t think that is a good idea. I think rooting yourself getting low and letting them eat your elbow with their collarbone and them using kytennage is a MUCH better idea. Maybe moving off the line of attack and using Hugh Yung’s Uzumake and then dropping and elbow into the back of his head, or moving into a hamnihadochi position would also be better ideas than irimi.
I have to wonder if you know what Budo means? For that matter I have to wonder if the guy who practices “Budo Karata” knows what Budo means. Budo in Japanese means the “way of stopping the sword” or “defeating the sword”. (defeating in that since is to defeat the intent of the sword, death) Which if you take the intent of that statement it means the way of ending conflict or avoiding conflict, and it also can mean the way of preserving life. Just like the term Samurai means to serve, and bushido is the code of the samurai and where the forms of the samurai (budo) spring. However in Japan Budo has come to me a general term that simply means martial arts. So either “Budo Karata” is just down right wrong as Karata’s roots are not in the samurai or it is redundant. I don’t see the “honor” in fighting people or “being the best”, I don’t see the budo in it and I doubt the masters of budo do for that matter. It is the those few on the planet that have mastered the arts left by the samurai that are most likely the most dangerous, just by virtue of how the systems developed, but are also the least likely to be fighting by virtue of the intent of the teachings. Not to mention all the technique are meant to kill swiftly, and not to be played with.
I must say I am interested in seeing this video, but I also think there are a lot of people out there and trying to say that any person is the best is just FUNNY. I'd like to see him fight a sword Master such as Kotaka Sensei. Though after that you wouldn't be reading anymore about him because he'd be dead, but I guess that doesn’t count because it isn’t empty hand. But isn’t kendo just as much a martial art as a *******ized form of jujitsu? And if you can’t beat him you can’t beat him!
I can’t believe you sit there and say this guy is the best and then all you do is compare him to movie stars!
“over 400 fights in and out of the ring and on the street never been defeated, challeneged everyone from Benny Urquidez, Van Damme, Mike Tson. Hands down the greatest fighter who is living today!”~littleDragon869
WOW!!! Lets look at these people. I can’t even believe you listed Van Damme as one of the greatest fighters in the world. Hell I could beat Van Damme with one arm tied behind my back. Mike Tson is a boxer, no big deal there. (granted better than Van Damme but just about everybody is) Most all movie stars are NOT all that great at fighting. Jet Li said himself that he is really good with forms but wouldn’t have the first idea what to do in a real fight, and would probable get his butt kicked. Jet Li said that in an interview on the “Kiss of the Dragon” DVD. Seagal is hands down the best martial artist Hollywood has EVER seen, but even Seagal is not the best Aikidoka the world has to offer. Hombu Dojo has a LOT people there that would eat Seagal.
If Rickson wants to test his metal he should go fight people like Sifu Emin Bozpete, or jot over to Hombu and start something (Japan is recognized as having the world’s best police force and most of Japan’s police train at Hombu, people have died at that school), or maybe go down to Thailand and get into a fight with some of those Thailand Thai-boxers (people die in those competitions). As far as using iriminage to deal with a BJJ guy shooting on you, I don’t think that is a good idea. I think rooting yourself getting low and letting them eat your elbow with their collarbone and them using kytennage is a MUCH better idea. Maybe moving off the line of attack and using Hugh Yung’s Uzumake and then dropping and elbow into the back of his head, or moving into a hamnihadochi position would also be better ideas than irimi.
I have to wonder if you know what Budo means? For that matter I have to wonder if the guy who practices “Budo Karata” knows what Budo means. Budo in Japanese means the “way of stopping the sword” or “defeating the sword”. (defeating in that since is to defeat the intent of the sword, death) Which if you take the intent of that statement it means the way of ending conflict or avoiding conflict, and it also can mean the way of preserving life. Just like the term Samurai means to serve, and bushido is the code of the samurai and where the forms of the samurai (budo) spring. However in Japan Budo has come to me a general term that simply means martial arts. So either “Budo Karata” is just down right wrong as Karata’s roots are not in the samurai or it is redundant. I don’t see the “honor” in fighting people or “being the best”, I don’t see the budo in it and I doubt the masters of budo do for that matter. It is the those few on the planet that have mastered the arts left by the samurai that are most likely the most dangerous, just by virtue of how the systems developed, but are also the least likely to be fighting by virtue of the intent of the teachings. Not to mention all the technique are meant to kill swiftly, and not to be played with.
I must say I am interested in seeing this video, but I also think there are a lot of people out there and trying to say that any person is the best is just FUNNY. I'd like to see him fight a sword Master such as Kotaka Sensei. Though after that you wouldn't be reading anymore about him because he'd be dead, but I guess that doesn’t count because it isn’t empty hand. But isn’t kendo just as much a martial art as a *******ized form of jujitsu? And if you can’t beat him you can’t beat him!
Littledragon
Above The Law
Bushido said:
You kidding me? Emin Boztepe haha, he is not even in the same zip code as Rickson. i really dont think you know of Rickson's background, I don't think you have watched his fights, and the people I mentioned I never said they were the best fighters, I just said they are the ones he challenged, IN brazil he would travel from school to school tapping out the black belt karate masters, read THE GRACIE WAY and get your facts strait. Unless all these traditional karate masters you have mentioned dont compete then they have not tested their skill against anybody and really just preaching theory.
You're the one who needs to get his facts straight. I never said anything about karata masters, I said budo masters, as in the guys studying the traditional samurai forms (which karata is not). I don’t really care what the Gracies have or have not done. All I did was note that you said he was the best and then went on to support that with listing a bunch of guys he challenged, guys which aren't all that great to begin with. Anyway, when I see any of the Gracies take on eight 8th degree black belts of varying well-recognized schools from Japan at the SAME time then I’ll be impressed, but I doubt he can take on more than one resemble train person at a time. As far as I’m concerned BJJ is a sport, nothing more. If we want to use the term Fighter in the sport connotation then maybe he is the best, but in real world live or die, I doubt it! Oh Sifu Emin Boztepe isn’t in the same zip code, but Van Damme the “I can do the split” man is?!
Littledragon
Above The Law
Bushido said:
Its funny because you obviously know nothing about the Gracies and if you think BJJ is a sport its like saying Mohhamad Ali doesn't box. You are a trip man, get the facts strait.
yudansha
TheGreatOne
... calm down...
O.K. ... one thing you have to understand about these Shaolin raised Kung-Fu stylists is that they were brought up to be humble. I know (as I've seen these little 'interviews' from DVD's extras) that Jet Li said he wouldn't know where to 'start' if it came to blows ... that's because he's not an aggressive person by nature. He might not be able to attack with intent to kill, but he'd be able to defend himself from getting killed. Human instincts of Jet Li are very superior to those of many, many other wu-shu practitioners. How do you think he became the Chinese champion in the arts? Yes, he does know many forms, but those forms were not intended to just showcase the beauty of the art. Jet Li is a great martial artist. And yes, about saying who IS the greatest is actually a funny topic ... I agree.
Van Damme by the way was made to look like a buffoon because of his lame movies of the late 90's ... and by that he was discredited as an excellent and proficient martial artist by the media. Nevertheless, he is well trained. I also agree to the fact that ju-jitsu (like) judo is more of a sport than a martial art (being part of the Olympics kind of supports this case).
Littledragon, you read into The Gracie Way ... but you must remember that Steven Seagal was also going from school to school challenging the black belts (from various martial arts styles) in order to get a recognizable name in the martial arts community.
As far as 'proving' who is the greatest fighter ... that's just impossible. Like was said, if you put up any Gracie versus a highly ranked (i.e. 8th dan or even higher) kenjutsu practitioner ... unless Gracie can pin down his master opponent with the first try, he'd have his head cut off in an instant afterwards.
Hey Bushido, may I ask you something? It seems like you are an experienced martial artist. What style do you do? ... and are you ranked?
O.K. ... one thing you have to understand about these Shaolin raised Kung-Fu stylists is that they were brought up to be humble. I know (as I've seen these little 'interviews' from DVD's extras) that Jet Li said he wouldn't know where to 'start' if it came to blows ... that's because he's not an aggressive person by nature. He might not be able to attack with intent to kill, but he'd be able to defend himself from getting killed. Human instincts of Jet Li are very superior to those of many, many other wu-shu practitioners. How do you think he became the Chinese champion in the arts? Yes, he does know many forms, but those forms were not intended to just showcase the beauty of the art. Jet Li is a great martial artist. And yes, about saying who IS the greatest is actually a funny topic ... I agree.
Van Damme by the way was made to look like a buffoon because of his lame movies of the late 90's ... and by that he was discredited as an excellent and proficient martial artist by the media. Nevertheless, he is well trained. I also agree to the fact that ju-jitsu (like) judo is more of a sport than a martial art (being part of the Olympics kind of supports this case).
Littledragon, you read into The Gracie Way ... but you must remember that Steven Seagal was also going from school to school challenging the black belts (from various martial arts styles) in order to get a recognizable name in the martial arts community.
As far as 'proving' who is the greatest fighter ... that's just impossible. Like was said, if you put up any Gracie versus a highly ranked (i.e. 8th dan or even higher) kenjutsu practitioner ... unless Gracie can pin down his master opponent with the first try, he'd have his head cut off in an instant afterwards.
Hey Bushido, may I ask you something? It seems like you are an experienced martial artist. What style do you do? ... and are you ranked?
Littledragon
Above The Law
yudansha said:
The problem is its all IF IF, Gracie actually takes action and not just talk and theory. Jiu-Jitsu is not a sport but one of the greatest martial arts besides Jeet Kune Do (imo) for street self-defense, I really don't think you have seen Gracie fight. He would kill Seagal in a "street" situation, whats Seagal gona do when he is on the ground??
Without a doubt the BEST FIGHTER OF ALL TIME IS BRUCE LEE!! ;-)
I hope you enjoy this 
You know Mohhamad Ali thinks he is the best fighter of all time. I saw an interview with him and heard him say as much, an in it's context he's right. He was talking about the King's boxing. To use a metaphor you’re familiar with: To say BJJ is like a sport is like to say Boxing is a sport. Granted most BJJ guys are going to beat most boxing guys, but both systems are based on rules and both systems are based on one on one interactions. Those two things classify both as sports in my mind. In the real world people want to hurt you, people want to hurt you. They don’t care about fighting fair or nice or one on one. If you’re on the ground going for a submission the guy’s buds are going to be messing you up! All this UFC stuff is crap straight up. Have you seen the list of rules they have, and no one goes right for the kill. If you tear the throat out of a guy who is shooting on you fight over, and that is pretty easy to do but you can’t do that when you are playing in a ring.
So why don’t you tell be why you don’t address any of my points? Why don’t you tell me why this guy is any good? You keep talking about it but you don’t give any examples. You talking about him challenging a people almost and 7 year student of the martial are can beat, and you talk about the Gracies beating everyone in Brazil. Lets have names. You said he’s beat the best. Who’s the best? Who are these guys that are so good that we know because he’s beaten them that he is the best on Earth, and what makes them so good? Maybe if they were any good that wouldn’t have loss to them. Every UFC match I’ve seen I never see any high ranking people I’ve heard of, and I never see any technique from anyone buy the Gracies. Coincidence? I think not, as the Gracies setup of the UFC.
Fasts are the Martial arts were made a looong time ago. And Brazilin Jujitsu, lets look at that word “jujitsu”… wow! That’s Japanese, wonder why? Oh, because old man Gracie learn Jujitsu over in Japan and took out a lot of the good stuff and focused on the ground work. So what is BJJ, just Jujitsu minus the everything but the ground work. Why is that? Because most people are uncomfortable on the ground and most people don’t know how to deal with a TOTALLY committed person willing to take hits to win, in fact plan on it. So BJJ is a way watered down version of jujitsu. He did that to have a system he could win a lot with become famous and teach people quickly furthering fame because everyone else can learn to “beat” people quickly.
Back on track… So the very fundamentals of “fighting” come from the MAs. I hope we can agree on that, as boxing is just crap. The martial arts are really old and passed down from generation to generation. Every good teach I have yet to meat (know the ones you’re wise to leave alone and respect) all emphasize not fighting. Why? Because their teacher did and the respect him a lot that is why they stayed in the school long enough to became good. Same with their teachers and so on till you get to the origins, which in the case of bushido was on the battle fielded. The MAs that weren’t effective died there along with their founders, so there was no one to pass them on. Well it continued like that till society came to a point were people could run their mouths with out fear of consequence because they know that people weren’t going to kill them because of the new found strength of law-enforcement. At which point students remained students long enough to learned to “fight” but not long enough to learn the inner secrets of the art, because once they could beat the common man they could brag and they didn’t have to worry about their instructor killing them or at least kicking their butt real good. Enter Bruce Lee. He WAS NOT a master of Wing Tsun. He never finish his training under Yip Man. He never even got to Butse. That is why Jitkundo is inferior it Wing Tsun. Same story with Gracie.
My point is that these martial artists you are gauging this guy by are students that never finished their training or even worse their teacher didn’t. The people really in the know, know they can’t kill you and they don’t have to prove that to themselves and if they did they’d go to jail. The Gracies are little more than brawlers. You say Rickson does mediation and the like, and he can sit underwater falls and not get cold. Great good for him! Who taught him that? Who taught the man who taught him? Do you think he’s the only one who can do that in the world? That there is only this one strand of “real” martial artist, who know more than “theory”? Rickson, his dad, the man who taught him and so on? Or is it just Rickson? So I guess he was just born with it! no? Oh so it is safe to say each of the teachers all the way back were really good then? Why is it JUST the Gracies we’re hearing all about then? Do you think all these people who knew what they were doing only taught one person? Where are old man Gracie’s pears? Why aren’t they out blawling and becoming “real” martial artist who don’t “just practice theory”?
Are you seeing what I’m saying? I bet not as you haven’t put these things together yourself. Mathematically there has to be a whole lot of good martial artist out there that you don’t hear about. If we can safely say you become one and you aren’t born that way, then we can say you have to have a teacher. If you have to have a teacher, that teacher has to teach you. In order for that teacher to teach you have to do what he says. The teacher, who knows how to kill and teaches how to kill, teaches not to get in to a fight or to compete. That means since we don’t see that there are a lot of “good” martial artist out there, we have to assume the good ones are doing what they are told, and seeing as there are some “martial artist” we can see and see some are better than others, we can conclude that there are some good ones out there somewhere as they taught the drop out who are out there bragging. And good ones are not all fighting with Rickson, not even most of them as you say Rickson has ONLY fought 400 fights and there are 6 billon people out there, and then I would speculate that Rickson isn’t all that great.
You know Mohhamad Ali thinks he is the best fighter of all time. I saw an interview with him and heard him say as much, an in it's context he's right. He was talking about the King's boxing. To use a metaphor you’re familiar with: To say BJJ is like a sport is like to say Boxing is a sport. Granted most BJJ guys are going to beat most boxing guys, but both systems are based on rules and both systems are based on one on one interactions. Those two things classify both as sports in my mind. In the real world people want to hurt you, people want to hurt you. They don’t care about fighting fair or nice or one on one. If you’re on the ground going for a submission the guy’s buds are going to be messing you up! All this UFC stuff is crap straight up. Have you seen the list of rules they have, and no one goes right for the kill. If you tear the throat out of a guy who is shooting on you fight over, and that is pretty easy to do but you can’t do that when you are playing in a ring.
So why don’t you tell be why you don’t address any of my points? Why don’t you tell me why this guy is any good? You keep talking about it but you don’t give any examples. You talking about him challenging a people almost and 7 year student of the martial are can beat, and you talk about the Gracies beating everyone in Brazil. Lets have names. You said he’s beat the best. Who’s the best? Who are these guys that are so good that we know because he’s beaten them that he is the best on Earth, and what makes them so good? Maybe if they were any good that wouldn’t have loss to them. Every UFC match I’ve seen I never see any high ranking people I’ve heard of, and I never see any technique from anyone buy the Gracies. Coincidence? I think not, as the Gracies setup of the UFC.
Fasts are the Martial arts were made a looong time ago. And Brazilin Jujitsu, lets look at that word “jujitsu”… wow! That’s Japanese, wonder why? Oh, because old man Gracie learn Jujitsu over in Japan and took out a lot of the good stuff and focused on the ground work. So what is BJJ, just Jujitsu minus the everything but the ground work. Why is that? Because most people are uncomfortable on the ground and most people don’t know how to deal with a TOTALLY committed person willing to take hits to win, in fact plan on it. So BJJ is a way watered down version of jujitsu. He did that to have a system he could win a lot with become famous and teach people quickly furthering fame because everyone else can learn to “beat” people quickly.
Back on track… So the very fundamentals of “fighting” come from the MAs. I hope we can agree on that, as boxing is just crap. The martial arts are really old and passed down from generation to generation. Every good teach I have yet to meat (know the ones you’re wise to leave alone and respect) all emphasize not fighting. Why? Because their teacher did and the respect him a lot that is why they stayed in the school long enough to became good. Same with their teachers and so on till you get to the origins, which in the case of bushido was on the battle fielded. The MAs that weren’t effective died there along with their founders, so there was no one to pass them on. Well it continued like that till society came to a point were people could run their mouths with out fear of consequence because they know that people weren’t going to kill them because of the new found strength of law-enforcement. At which point students remained students long enough to learned to “fight” but not long enough to learn the inner secrets of the art, because once they could beat the common man they could brag and they didn’t have to worry about their instructor killing them or at least kicking their butt real good. Enter Bruce Lee. He WAS NOT a master of Wing Tsun. He never finish his training under Yip Man. He never even got to Butse. That is why Jitkundo is inferior it Wing Tsun. Same story with Gracie.
My point is that these martial artists you are gauging this guy by are students that never finished their training or even worse their teacher didn’t. The people really in the know, know they can’t kill you and they don’t have to prove that to themselves and if they did they’d go to jail. The Gracies are little more than brawlers. You say Rickson does mediation and the like, and he can sit underwater falls and not get cold. Great good for him! Who taught him that? Who taught the man who taught him? Do you think he’s the only one who can do that in the world? That there is only this one strand of “real” martial artist, who know more than “theory”? Rickson, his dad, the man who taught him and so on? Or is it just Rickson? So I guess he was just born with it! no? Oh so it is safe to say each of the teachers all the way back were really good then? Why is it JUST the Gracies we’re hearing all about then? Do you think all these people who knew what they were doing only taught one person? Where are old man Gracie’s pears? Why aren’t they out blawling and becoming “real” martial artist who don’t “just practice theory”?
Are you seeing what I’m saying? I bet not as you haven’t put these things together yourself. Mathematically there has to be a whole lot of good martial artist out there that you don’t hear about. If we can safely say you become one and you aren’t born that way, then we can say you have to have a teacher. If you have to have a teacher, that teacher has to teach you. In order for that teacher to teach you have to do what he says. The teacher, who knows how to kill and teaches how to kill, teaches not to get in to a fight or to compete. That means since we don’t see that there are a lot of “good” martial artist out there, we have to assume the good ones are doing what they are told, and seeing as there are some “martial artist” we can see and see some are better than others, we can conclude that there are some good ones out there somewhere as they taught the drop out who are out there bragging. And good ones are not all fighting with Rickson, not even most of them as you say Rickson has ONLY fought 400 fights and there are 6 billon people out there, and then I would speculate that Rickson isn’t all that great.
yudansha
TheGreatOne
Very well put Bushido! (you still haven't asnwered a few of my questions)
That's something to think about ain't it? I agree: too many people we haven't heard of, too many people who don't bother for fame and fortune, too many people who just want peace and quiet for themselves and their mentors.
Jett Kune Do is a combination of various fractions of different martial arts. It was said, that JKD contains the main 'ingredients' of martial arts. The kung-fu part in JKD is in fact inferior to Wing Chun but only because it does not include (like you said) all of the components, but JKD includes other forms that Wing Chun does not possess. So, saying that JKD in itself is inferior to Wing Chun is just silly. You really cannot compare such ... just like you cannot say who really is the greatest martial artist alive.
"I really don't think you have seen Gracie fight. He would kill Seagal in a "street" situation, whats Seagal gona do when he is on the ground??"
Littledragon: first, let me say this bluntly ... I really do not care as to what you think I have experienced as you will never know.
Second, what would make you think that any Gracie would be able to take Steven Seagal down to the ground, and that Steven Seagal would let anyone take his 250lb body flat on the ground. ... Let's say, that by some unthinkable reason, that SS would go down ... you ask what he would do? ... Plain and simple: he would take out his 1911 and take the opponent's head off. Can BJJ practitioner dodge a bullet? Is that part of the training? How many lessons would you need? I bet it would be tough for a beginner ... so how would a beginner then progress to a master's advanced level? You Littledragon must be joking me with all your assumptions.
The best technique is stealth. That would make sharp shooters better than O'Sensei. ... Well, unless they're in the Matrix
That's something to think about ain't it? I agree: too many people we haven't heard of, too many people who don't bother for fame and fortune, too many people who just want peace and quiet for themselves and their mentors.
Jett Kune Do is a combination of various fractions of different martial arts. It was said, that JKD contains the main 'ingredients' of martial arts. The kung-fu part in JKD is in fact inferior to Wing Chun but only because it does not include (like you said) all of the components, but JKD includes other forms that Wing Chun does not possess. So, saying that JKD in itself is inferior to Wing Chun is just silly. You really cannot compare such ... just like you cannot say who really is the greatest martial artist alive.
"I really don't think you have seen Gracie fight. He would kill Seagal in a "street" situation, whats Seagal gona do when he is on the ground??"
Littledragon: first, let me say this bluntly ... I really do not care as to what you think I have experienced as you will never know.
Second, what would make you think that any Gracie would be able to take Steven Seagal down to the ground, and that Steven Seagal would let anyone take his 250lb body flat on the ground. ... Let's say, that by some unthinkable reason, that SS would go down ... you ask what he would do? ... Plain and simple: he would take out his 1911 and take the opponent's head off. Can BJJ practitioner dodge a bullet? Is that part of the training? How many lessons would you need? I bet it would be tough for a beginner ... so how would a beginner then progress to a master's advanced level? You Littledragon must be joking me with all your assumptions.
The best technique is stealth. That would make sharp shooters better than O'Sensei. ... Well, unless they're in the Matrix
Littledragon
Above The Law
I just get this feeling that you guys are trying to elieve that traditional teachings is like a gospel for self defense. I question tradition vs. reality, all those moves you learn won't be apllied all those wrist grabs etc.. on the street its a NHB brawl.