about Aikido rankings and training

BritneySpearsGuy

New Member
i found this link about Aikido in San Jose by searching google.com. I just searched for anything with Aikido rankings and number of days and here's a link.
http://www.aikidosj.com/adults-exams.html

I have not taken Aikido myself, at least not yet. But can anyone tell me how many days it takes to get to a black belt?? It says 200 training classes. Do they mean 200 days from the beginning of your Aikido training, or 200 days from the beginning of when you got the previous belt level??
 

TDWoj

Administrator
Staff member
Only 200 days (from last level, probably) - is that all? Not in my dojo. To acquire Shodan (black belt), it takes 400 practice days from the last level achieved.

6th kyu - 40 days
5th kyu - 60 days from 6th kyu
4th kyu - 80 days from 5th kyu
3rd kyu - 100 days from 4th kyu
2nd kyu - 200 days from 3rd kyu
1st kyu - 300 days from 2nd kyu
Shodan - 400 days from 1st kyu
Nidan - 600 practice days from Shodan
Sandan - 700 practice days from Nidan
 

BritneySpearsGuy

New Member
TDWoj said:
Only 200 days (from last level, probably) - is that all? Not in my dojo. To acquire Shodan (black belt), it takes 400 practice days from the last level achieved.

6th kyu - 40 days
5th kyu - 60 days from 6th kyu
4th kyu - 80 days from 5th kyu
3rd kyu - 100 days from 4th kyu
2nd kyu - 200 days from 3rd kyu
1st kyu - 300 days from 2nd kyu
Shodan - 400 days from 1st kyu
Nidan - 600 practice days from Shodan
Sandan - 700 practice days from Nidan

thanks for the information. I just randomly searched for any Aikido dojo that shows how many training days it takes to go for a test for a certain level. I live somewhere in Toronto, Canada. I want to take Aikido, but i just dont have the hours to do it right now. Maybe within the next year, i will take Aikido somewhere around Markham or Richmond Hill, close to where i live.

And what dojo do you go to?? YOur profile says you're from Toronto, Canada.
 

TDWoj

Administrator
Staff member
I'd rather not say - don't want anyone checking up on me!

The rules are from the Canadian Aikido Federation which goes by the rules set out by the big guns in Japan, I think (the name of the organisation escapes me for the moment).

Ones in your area - a search on Aikiweb shows only the following: Aikido Hokuryukai, 9100 Bathurst Street (it lists it as Toronto, but it can't be, the postal code starts with an "L"), Aikikai.

There's lots in Toronto, a few in Brampton, but none in Markham or Richmond Hill. You'll have some driving to do.
 

BritneySpearsGuy

New Member
i looked in my phone book and they said there was one on Bathurst and Highway 7, but still cant find it. Everytime i phone them, no one is there.

What ranking are you at in Aikido, and if you took any tests, what exactly did you have to do??
 

TDWoj

Administrator
Staff member
Try phoning them after 6 p.m. My classes all start at 6:15 in the evening (though there are two mornings when they start at 6:15 a.m. <shudder>).

Bathurst and Hwy 7 - sounds like it's the one at 9100 Bathurst. Here's the website addy: http://members.rogers.com/aikido or their e-mail addy: aikido@rogers.com.

I'm not ranked yet, although I should have taken my 6th kyu test in June (see my aikido thread as to why I didn't). I'm taking it in September, instead. You have to know certain basic techniques, for instance, ukemi (forward and backward rolls, from both kneeling and standing positions) and some simple throws, holds and pins, like ikkyo, iriminage, kotegaeshi and shihonage. And shikko (knee-walking). And one or two other things. It depends on the dojo, who they're affiliated with, whose rules they follow.

I must say, I was very suprised at the qualification time on the other site you posted - it seemed pretty insufficient.

I go four times per week, so I qualified really quickly. At the moment, I'm already at 90 classes, which is 50 more than I need for 6th kyu, and no, I can't "bank" the extra classes for my next test! Drat! :D
 

Amos Stevens

New Member
I didn't think there was a set amount of training dates for belts...I thought it was dependant on what you have learned..thus the reason for testing
 

yudansha

TheGreatOne
"dependant on what you have learned"

Well, the more classes you take, the more you should learn, don't you think? But, you're also seeing the business side of it now.
 

Littledragon

Above The Law
yudansha said:
Well, the more classes you take, the more you should learn, don't you think? But, you're also seeing the business side of it now.


I am against the buisness side of the Martial Arts. That ranking information TD posted in my opinion I am against that. There should be no set number of days till you get a belt, experience is what makes a good Martial Artist, and I believe there should be no set amount of days in order to test. You test when the instructor feels you are ready.
 

TDWoj

Administrator
Staff member
Amos: there's no testing for belts after 3rd dan. After that, the rankings are awarded based on what you give back to aikido, is my understanding.

Littledragon, it's pretty clear that you don't know that much about aikido. I don't know that much, myself; I'm still learning, of course. What I do know is that aikido is something you study over a long period of time. Techniques are learned in stages and are perfected over time. The number of days is a minimum; some people take longer to achieve each level. One of the techniques, iriminage, has a nickname - it's called the "20-year technique", meaning that it can take at least - and note that I say AT LEAST - 20 years to learn to do properly. We have a black belt in our dojo who's been studying aikido for more than 20 years and even he admits that he hasn't got iriminage perfected.

When I told someone who took karate that it usually takes up to 7 years to achieve black-belt status in aikido, he couldn't believe it - he'd gotten his black belt in karate within a year.

There's nothing fast about aikido. To quote O-Sensei: "In your training, do not be in a hurry, for it takes a minimum of ten years to master the basics and advance to the first rung. Never think of yourself as an all-knowing perfected master; you must continue to train daily with your friends and students and progress together in the Way of Harmony."

Yudansha - there is no possible way to learn the techniques within the level expected in a shorter period of time. Some people do learn techniques faster and master them very quickly. Those are the ones that usually wash out of aikido very quickly, as well, because they think they've learned it all.

There were a lot of people who started around the same time I did, and they had learned ukemi, for example, very quickly and very well. What they couldn't take was the repetitive practice. Doing the same techniques every class, over and over and over again. It's taken me six months to learn the simple tenkan; and that's because I've done it every single class - 90 classes - since I started. And I still get corrected by the instructor.

Mind you, I do it well enough now that my partners have to adjust their stance so they don't end up flying into the wall. But now I'm learning to do it dynamically, faster and with the eventual intent of making my partner fly into the wall (hopefully he'll stop short of it). Even the black belts get corrected by higher ranking black belts. It's a constant learning process. It's not BUSINESS - it's just the way aikido is learned.
 

ad_adrian

Twitter: adadrian
with yoshinkan its different
you can grade as quickly...or as slowly as u want
(although going so quickly would often result in a fail)
 

yudansha

TheGreatOne
"It's not BUSINESS..."

And it shouldn't be, but in a capitalistic society, that is how it is. If it wasn't, then explain why there is a need to have kyu rankings anyways? Why not just go back to the traditional - you are either a master, or you are not (black belt or white belt). I understand that there is a need for steady progression and rewarding for advancement is a tradition in itself, but there must not be a "minimum" set limit. Who is to say that it takes AT LEAST a certain amount of time for ANYBODY to learn the same thing? Why do you think colours were introduced? It was made purely for advertisement - to entice people. Nothing is free, and nobody here does anything for free. However, if you spend much time doing something that doesn't earn you a buck, how will you survive? Martial arts in America aren't just a "way of life" as many instructors will lead you to believe, it is very much a business as well - a business that clears the way for you to continue with your life. Not all schools are like that, but the majority unfortunately conduct the studies that way. If it wasn't, then explain to me why so much of the equipment and apparel and examinations require so much financial input from the student. Even if you want to study Kung Fu at a Shaolin temple it will cost you a fair amount of money. It's the reason why you don't see nearly as many underprivileged kids studying martial arts these days. With Hollywood making it popular, the business blossomed. Why? Because there appeared to be a great sudden demand due to advertisement through films. It is a simple principle of economics. So, TD, don't tell me it's not a business because you are just fooling yourself. America always has a trickle down effect on the rest of the world, and once martial arts became so popular and profitable, traditionalists started to suffer. The traditional ways of martial arts are becoming extinct at a great pace. It is unfortunate, but everything always comes down to money and the greed for it.
 

TDWoj

Administrator
Staff member
I'll be sure to pass on your comments to my sensei, Yudansha. She'd be interested in hearing that she's spent 30 years of her life studying aikido just for the money.

Yudansha, despite your handle, how much do you really know about aikido? For one thing, there are no coloured belts in aikido, only degrees of white belt and black belt (yoshinkan, as adrian has pointed out, is different). The tests are for testing the level of your skill and knowledge.

I couldn't believe how little I had to pay for my dojo fees. My sensei knows how cash-strapped I am so when it comes time for a seminar the dojo is hosting, I don't have to pay the full fee - just pay what I can. She gives breaks to other students the same way. In fact, I haven't even paid my fees for July yet; if it were a business, as you say, I'd be forbidden from attending classes until I coughed up the fee.

None of the instructors at my dojo are paid. The dojos fees go strictly towards overhead costs, like renting the space, hydro and fixing the wall when somebody goes plunging into it. Instructors from my dojo also volunteer their time to teach aikido at the Y.

There may be aikido dojos who are, as you say, a business rather than a discipline. I haven't come across any.
 

yudansha

TheGreatOne
I wasn't talking just about aikido, but rather martial arts in general.

In that post, did I refer to aikido specifically when making those remarks?

And like I said (if you actually do pay as much attention to detail as you always say you do) - not EVERYBODY does it for the money, and if you found a place like that then that's great and good for you - just enjoy.

"if it were a business, as you say, I'd be forbidden from attending classes until I coughed up the fee"

And that's EXACTLY how it is in many organizations promoting martial arts.

"There may be aikido dojos who are, as you say, a business rather than a discipline. I haven't come across any."

Then you haven't been around much. It's just that simple.
 

TDWoj

Administrator
Staff member
No, it isn't. Most aikido dojos - at least, those belonging to the Canadian Aikido Federation - are run as not-for-profit organisations, asking fees only to cover overhead expenses. Senseis do not draw a salary, and instructors do not get paid, not even an honorarium. In addition, Aikido is THE most carefully regulated martial art there is (Yoshinkai is less regulated than aikikai, one is to note) and techniques and training are therefore very strictly overseen. As far as testing is concerned, especially, the North American model of number of testing days (recommended, not necessarily minimim - I double-checked, I thought it was minimum) is the one considered "standard", and is based on the Hombu dojo requirements.

I would suggest before you lump all martial arts into one messy soup of capitalistic greed, it might be worth while to check into these things, as I have done.
 

yudansha

TheGreatOne
i don't know about aikido...

... as I remember saying that I am not an aikidoka but would love to study aikido whenever I get a lot of time off.

"recommended, not necessarily minimim"

Well, thanks for telling me that now. :D

TD, you're a good debater. Are you a ranked master debater? :D
 

Littledragon

Above The Law
yudansha said:
... as I remember saying that I am not an aikidoka but would love to study aikido whenever I get a lot of time off.

"recommended, not necessarily minimim"

Well, thanks for telling me that now. :D

TD, you're a good debater. Are you a ranked master debater? :D


I think the debates are so good because you both are Canadians. :D
 

yudansha

TheGreatOne
"because you both are Canadians"

Am I supposed to laugh because you are making fun of Canada? Or are you just complimenting us on the American intelligence inferiority to Canadians? Because in that case, that is pretty funny! Haha! --> :D
 
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