All Action Heroes Go To Heaven !!

[suziwong]

From the Movie Poop Shoot

ALL ACTION HEROES GO TO HEAVEN
By Joshua Jabcuga
April 4, 2003

Steven Seagal is dead. No, not literally, but in that straight-to-video sense of the word. When it comes to former action heroes of the silver screen, straight-to-video is synonymous with death. Think of it as Hollywood hara-kiri, or like that non existent farm that your parents took your childhood dog to when he started to go senile and nipped at your little sister one night, never to be seen from again.

For straight-to-video releases the bottom shelves of Blockbuster Video can be a lot like that imaginary rural haven for retired pooches, collecting dust somewhere between THE CROW 3: SALVATION, and, how apropos, DOG SOLDIERS, waiting in limbo to be rescued by some kind soul.

Steven Seagal is an old dawg, to be sure, but by no means is he a mutt (no matter what former co-star Sharon Stone says about him), and he certainly deserves more than to be put down without a fight, or at the least, a proper farewell. The pony-tailed, Akido practicing star blazed his way onto cineplex movie screens, and yes, even into our hearts, with martial arts cinema masterpieces like ABOVE THE LAW (1988) and HARD TO KILL (1990). He followed it up with the above average UNDER SIEGE (one of the better DIE HARD clones of the day). Suddenly, Big Stevie developed this holier than thou Captain Planet attitude. He was no longer kicking ass and taking names. Now, in movies like 1994s ON DEADLY GROUND and 1996s THE GLIMMER MAN, he was spouting off Jedi-like Zen riddles.

Seagal’s fight choreography has come into question, too. Sure, we all knew Seagal was getting beefy like a Buddha, but according to costar Tom Arnold on a recent episode of LATE NIGHT WITH CONAN O’BRIAN, the former Mason Storm doesn’t even do his own fighting scenes anymore, but instead incorporates a stand-in and some Tinseltown editing trickery.

Look, I’m not some VANITY FAIR hack trying to make Seagal tap-out (I’m a hack for the prestigious Poop Shoot), but I am a die-hard Seagal fan, and I know good flicks, like any respectable chop sockey fanboy. I know what I like in my TBS Superstation Movies for Guys Who Like Movies, and I know what I want in my Seagal films. So without further ado, here is my list of suggestions for Mr. Seagal:

*The most obvious: Lose the poundage. Steve, you’re making Bill Clinton look like Bruce Lee. Purchase one of Tony Little’s Gazelles, try the ab-doer, the Hollywood 48-hour diet, whatever, just lose the tonnage, Rosie.

*Lose the wires. CROUCHING TIGER, HIDDEN DRAGON was great, but you’re not a magical warrior who can float on tree tops. Save the Peter Pan acrobatics for Jet Li, for Buddha’s sake.

*Please, no more rappers in your movies.

*Last but not least…bring back Kelly LeBrock.
************************************************
Did we read this !! If we, I will clean !!

 

[Trinity]

Mr.Seagal ROCKS on many different levels.If his movies aren't entertaining one at the moment go to his music or his spirituality or his charities or his Aikido etc...He has no worries about losing this fan anytime soon that I can see(I'm sure that makes him feel all warm and fuzzy inside,I say sarcastically.lol)His movies entertain me thus far and to me it's what it's all about

 

[Trinity]

P.S. Thank-you Suzi!

 

[Amos Stevens]

Thanks Suziwong

 

[TDWoj]

This Joshua dude is living in a fool's paradise. When are these guys ever going to learn that you can't go back, you can only go forward? Steven's not 36 years old any more. The fact he's continuing to make movies at all is a testament to his tenacity, even if they are stv films. I mean, what has Chuck Norris done lately except plug his exercise machine on informercials? And even stv clearly has an audience, or else why make the film at all?

Also, Joshua's clearly got his hot and bothered hormones in overdrive for Kelly but he's going to have to live with the disappointment - as if Kelly would ever be caught dead on screen with Steven ever again. I guess he hasn't heard Steven and Kelly are divorced?

While I do agree about the wire-work and to some extent rappers - Steven's style is best suited to reality-based fighting, and the rappers are mostly a distraction, especially those who can't really act (except Kurupt - I like him, don't ask me why) - as long as Steven does his own fighting, they can use all the stunt doubles they want for falling out of windows, crashing in cars, whatever.

It would also help if this Joshua and others like him actually researched their material, and not rely on some off-the-cuff remark made by a nimnul like Tom Arnold. Steven hurt his knee filming the first wire-work stunt (the car thieves scene). They had rehearsed him doing two other wire-work stunts (ref: "making of" on the dvd), but couldn't shoot them when the time came because of his injury (you can actually see Steven limping through parts of the film. And there are shots of the rehearsals for the jumping over the car scene with Steven in the wires).

And for goodness' sake, enough about the weight already. It's been done to death by myriad others, and all the bleating about it by this guy and other critics and fans and whoever else has got an axe to grind obviously hasn't had the least effect on the man himself. If Steven's still got the moves, weight and all (and judging from the OFAK trailer, he does) then I say let him go forth and kick ass in full pudge mode. Maybe if everyone stopped griping about his weight, he might be inclined to do something about it.

-TD, exasperated

 

[TDWoj]

P.S. Thanks for posting the article, Suzi!

 

[Lotussan]

This jerk Joshua obviously thinks he is holier than thou, calling Steven 'big stevie' and 'an old dog' this article is just plain disgusting...
And all this about his weight again?
I am sick to death of it...
Personally, I would like to see dear steven knock this guy to the floor, what an idiot...

 

[Disciple]

You know what I reckon? I reckon a lot of these journalists who are so OBSESSED with making cracks about his weight are in reality probably a little "chunky" themselves. It's really just their own hangups about their weight that come out in their negativity towards Seagal.

 

[Lotussan]

It's obviously just pure jealousy of his martial arts talent, and the fact that they know he could just kick their butts all over the place...
They desperately want to find something to make him look bad, because they just can't stand how much of a man he is...
Let's face it, he weight doesn't matter...
He is just as handsome as he ever was, and he's charismatic, talented, and charming...
Lots of women out there want him...
The critics simply can't stand this fact, because as you said they are probably feeling inferior, they don't have what he's got, and that's charm...
Who wouldn't be jealous?
Oh well...

 

[Storm]

I for one have made comments in the past about his weight. It's not to pull him down. I just wanted to see him attempt to try to get back to a fighting weight but if that's the way he intends to stay, i'll be still glad to see his movies. He has that extra something that makes you believe he can do the business.

 

[MMCK2]

This Joshua dude is living in a fool's paradise. When are these guys ever going to learn that you can't go back, you can only go forward? Steven's not 36 years old any more. The fact he's continuing to make movies at all is a testament to his tenacity, even if they are stv films. I mean, what has Chuck Norris done lately except plug his exercise machine on informercials? And even stv clearly has an audience, or else why make the film at all?

Also, Joshua's clearly got his hot and bothered hormones in overdrive for Kelly but he's going to have to live with the disappointment - as if Kelly would ever be caught dead on screen with Steven ever again. I guess he hasn't heard Steven and Kelly are divorced?

While I do agree about the wire-work and to some extent rappers - Steven's style is best suited to reality-based fighting, and the rappers are mostly a distraction, especially those who can't really act (except Kurupt - I like him, don't ask me why) - as long as Steven does his own fighting, they can use all the stunt doubles they want for falling out of windows, crashing in cars, whatever.

It would also help if this Joshua and others like him actually researched their material, and not rely on some off-the-cuff remark made by a nimnul like Tom Arnold. Steven hurt his knee filming the first wire-work stunt (the car thieves scene). They had rehearsed him doing two other wire-work stunts (ref: "making of" on the dvd), but couldn't shoot them when the time came because of his injury (you can actually see Steven limping through parts of the film. And there are shots of the rehearsals for the jumping over the car scene with Steven in the wires).

And for goodness' sake, enough about the weight already. It's been done to death by myriad others, and all the bleating about it by this guy and other critics and fans and whoever else has got an axe to grind obviously hasn't had the least effect on the man himself. If Steven's still got the moves, weight and all (and judging from the OFAK trailer, he does) then I say let him go forth and kick ass in full pudge mode. Maybe if everyone stopped griping about his weight, he might be inclined to do something about it.

-TD, exasperated

But does he have the moves, weight and all? I am not convinced, and like Storm ,I have been another member to criticise his weight mainly because it seems to have affected his martial arts prowess. If it was not for this I would'nt complain, but his fights since "The Glimmer Man" onwards, when he started to get heavy, have relied heavily on editing tricks like being sped up or quickly cut. You don't know how much this pisses me off when you know in real life what he is capable of in the martial arts, it just makes him look phoney and gives film critics and film goers who don't take to his films, more ammo to fire at him.

I am a fan of his but I'm sorry, I won't just pretend that he does'nt need to lose the pounds, when he is continueing to make action films, just to please his female fans who more or less attracted to his looks.

No offence meant.

Peace.

MMCK2

 

[Lotussan]

Well, if he feels he needs to lose then I say do it, and more power to him...
I appreciate his moves as much as anyone, as well as all of his other talents...
It's not all about his looks...
He's just got something special about him that's so attractive, yes, the girls like him, and I am sure the weight makes no difference...
I know it doesn't to me, I kind of like it, it makes him look big, and rough, and dangerous...

 

[Lotussan]

What am I saying, kind of? I really LIKE him with
some meat on him, I think he looks better that way...
It suits him, because he is so tall...
Then again in Exit Wounds he was pretty slim, so
I say again, I just like the man, no matter what his weight...
ok, I will stop,
I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable....

 

[TDWoj]

But does he have the moves, weight and all? I am not convinced, and like Storm ,I have been another member to criticise his weight mainly because it seems to have affected his martial arts prowess. If it was not for this I would'nt complain, but his fights since "The Glimmer Man" onwards, when he started to get heavy, have relied heavily on editing tricks like being sped up or quickly cut. You don't know how much this pisses me off when you know in real life what he is capable of in the martial arts, it just makes him look phoney and gives film critics and film goers who don't take to his films, more ammo to fire at him.

I am a fan of his but I'm sorry, I won't just pretend that he does'nt need to lose the pounds, when he is continueing to make action films, just to please his female fans who more or less attracted to his looks.

No offence meant.

Peace.

MMCK2

No, none taken. I understand what you're saying, I just think there's another explanation. The trick camera angles are more a feeble and totally useless attempt to hide his weight. (Obviously, he's in denial! <grin>.) If he does the moves as he used to do them, obviously we'll see how big he is. And clearly, he's being completely self-conscious about it. So we get the trick camera angles and slo-mo to hide the evidence, except it doesn't really.

Watch The Glimmerman carefully. He's completely self-conscious about his weight in this movie, to the point where it becomes silly. The one scene where we do get a good view of him fighting is in the restaurant, where he's wearing a suit and his paunch isn't as obvious as it is in the black smock that, frankly, makes him look pregnant rather than concealing anything. Hence why he's always hiding behind filing cabinets, walking around with folders in front of him, or standing slightly in the shadows or at a certain angle so you get fooled by what's his outline and what's background. Or being filmed only from mid-chest up. The other fights are filmed so that you can't really see him sideways on, as he had been filmed in the past.

Half-Past Dead is another story. That orange jumpsuit and the prison garb just made him look bigger. He should have just said, to hell with it, and done the work himself, but he didn't. In this case, I'd almost agree with you - in this film he might actually be too heavy to do the work himself, without doing himself an injury. After all, his balance has got to be off. But that doesn't mean he couldn't, if he had wanted to, work on that and still do the fighting himself. There could have been lots of reasons why he didn't do the work himself, insurance being the one that comes to mind first; but again, I think he's still being self-conscious about his weight and is still in denial, so it's safer for him to let somebody else do the fighting for him rather than let people see him being a fat fighter.

The Out For A Kill trailer, on the other hand, is interesting insofar as the few scenes we do see him fighting, he's definitely doing the work himself. So he's either got over being self-conscious, or other factors have combined to allow him to do his own fighting.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

 

[Lotussan]

I understand being self concious, because I am, too...
Again, I think he and I have this thing in common...
If he is very bothered by his weight I know just how he feels, and even though I (and most of us here)
think he's wonderful just as he is, self perception is a very complex thing, even though one knows they are being too self concious and/or critical, and that it may even be affecting them
(in this case perhaps the feeling is affecting his work...)
there is still not much that anyone can do to make said person feel more comfortable about it, aside from showing them that you love them regardless of their size...
I love him no matter what, and I will accept him whatever size he is...
I do understand how it feels to have everyone judge you that way, it's sad...
I see so much more in him than what's on the outside...
When I first became a fan I didn't see what he was all about, and now that I do, I adore him so completely...
He has flaws like anyone, but that is part of his charm, and I feel we have a lot in common some ways, to me he's truly wonderful...

 

[MMCK2]

No, none taken. I understand what you're saying, I just think there's another explanation. The trick camera angles are more a feeble and totally useless attempt to hide his weight. (Obviously, he's in denial! <grin>.) If he does the moves as he used to do them, obviously we'll see how big he is. And clearly, he's being completely self-conscious about it. So we get the trick camera angles and slo-mo to hide the evidence, except it doesn't really.

Watch The Glimmerman carefully. He's completely self-conscious about his weight in this movie, to the point where it becomes silly. The one scene where we do get a good view of him fighting is in the restaurant, where he's wearing a suit and his paunch isn't as obvious as it is in the black smock that, frankly, makes him look pregnant rather than concealing anything. Hence why he's always hiding behind filing cabinets, walking around with folders in front of him, or standing slightly in the shadows or at a certain angle so you get fooled by what's his outline and what's background. Or being filmed only from mid-chest up. The other fights are filmed so that you can't really see him sideways on, as he had been filmed in the past.

Half-Past Dead is another story. That orange jumpsuit and the prison garb just made him look bigger. He should have just said, to hell with it, and done the work himself, but he didn't. In this case, I'd almost agree with you - in this film he might actually be too heavy to do the work himself, without doing himself an injury. After all, his balance has got to be off. But that doesn't mean he couldn't, if he had wanted to, work on that and still do the fighting himself. There could have been lots of reasons why he didn't do the work himself, insurance being the one that comes to mind first; but again, I think he's still being self-conscious about his weight and is still in denial, so it's safer for him to let somebody else do the fighting for him rather than let people see him being a fat fighter.

The Out For A Kill trailer, on the other hand, is interesting insofar as the few scenes we do see him fighting, he's definitely doing the work himself. So he's either got over being self-conscious, or other factors have combined to allow him to do his own fighting.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

Good post, and I see what your saying. I think he is a bit too committed to vainly trying to hid his girth and therefore this will affect his fighting abilities as well, which I'm sure he still has. Come on Mr Seagal, get back to stylishly and savagely kicking peoples' asses, without those annoying editing tricks which you really don't need.

When I said that I would wish to see him lose weight, I did'nt mean him to go back to the stick thin build he was in "Above The Law", I meant more in the same league as the size he was in "Exit Wounds". I am sure it would leave him lighter on his feet.

Peace.

MMCK2

 

[Lotussan]

He has to want to do it, though...
Maybe he's sick of people focusing on that...
And it isn't easy to lose it , either...
Believe me I know...
Of course I know if he chose to he could, but maybe he doesn't feel he needs to...
I want him to be happy and healthy and satisfied, that's all...
However he goes about that is his business..
I think he's beautiful just as he is, and I thought he was gorgeous in Exit wounds too, and in FDB, and In Glimmer Man, and In Marked for Death...And in HPD, and...Well, you see...
Whatever he weighs is fine with me, I just adore HIM....

 

[TDWoj]

Yes, I liked his Exit Wounds size. He looked comfortable with himself as he had not been since The Glimmerman. Alas, if he doesn't get down to that size, if he does show the critics (and the fans) he's still "got it" as far as fighting goes at his current weight, the critics will remain merciless. And, I suspect, even if he does get down to "Exit Wounds" size, they'll find something else to bitch about - his hair, his age, his clothes, how many women he propositioned on the set, whatever.

One of the things I liked about his supporting roles was that because the films weren't "Steven Seagal" films, he was able to relax into the character without having to worry about "the moves". In other words, he got a chance to act without having to be "Steven Seagal". That's why I liked The Foreigner more than most people here. There were elements of the Jonathon Cold character that reminded me of Austin Travis and woss-iss-name in Ticker. Not your usual "Steven Seagal" fare. (Okay, so I'm that close to blaspheming.)

Fans, of course, would be disappointed if there wasn't at least one kick-ass fight in a film in which he appears; but that doesn't mean he can't do a film in which kick-ass fighting may only be necessary once (okay, maybe twice, but spectacularly done).

-TD, for whom "hero" means many things

 

[Lotussan]

I watched the Foreigner again, and agree, it is great...
Things change, and I appreciate the acting as much as the ass kicking, maybe some of the guys don't...
The critics are going to be relentless no matter what, if then can say something they will, it's just the facts...

 

[MMCK2]

Yes, I liked his Exit Wounds size. He looked comfortable with himself as he had not been since The Glimmerman. Alas, if he doesn't get down to that size, if he does show the critics (and the fans) he's still "got it" as far as fighting goes at his current weight, the critics will remain merciless. And, I suspect, even if he does get down to "Exit Wounds" size, they'll find something else to bitch about - his hair, his age, his clothes, how many women he propositioned on the set, whatever.

One of the things I liked about his supporting roles was that because the films weren't "Steven Seagal" films, he was able to relax into the character without having to worry about "the moves". In other words, he got a chance to act without having to be "Steven Seagal". That's why I liked The Foreigner more than most people here. There were elements of the Jonathon Cold character that reminded me of Austin Travis and woss-iss-name in Ticker. Not your usual "Steven Seagal" fare. (Okay, so I'm that close to blaspheming.)

Fans, of course, would be disappointed if there wasn't at least one kick-ass fight in a film in which he appears; but that doesn't mean he can't do a film in which kick-ass fighting may only be necessary once (okay, maybe twice, but spectacularly done).

-TD, for whom "hero" means many things

I agree with you that in his supporting roles, he does tend to give better performances. I actually did'nt mind "The Foreigner", and found it to be a little better than "Half Past Dead" and although "Ticker" is probably his worst movie, it is not because of his acting. The main problem I had with "Ticker" was that it was very cheaply and badly made (director Albert Pyunn please take a bow!) but Seagal himself was up to the job of his supporting role and I thought he gave a decent performance. I don't so much mind his weight problem when he gives decent acting performances (I still prefer good fight scenes though) like in "The Patriot" which I really enjoyed and I am certainly in the minority because of that. He had an affectionate, believeable rapport with the actress who was playing his daughter and you really believed his frustration when (1) Frank is killed and (2) his initial unsuccessfulness at finding a cure for the plague. On the other hand I did'nt like "Fire Down Below" because his fight scenes were so badly filmed and also because, to me, he gave a very lazy, can't be bothered performance as Jack Taggart.

BTW, don't worry, your not blaspheming when you like him doing stuff that is'nt typically Seagal, I like him to mix up his image a little too sometimes.

Peace.

MMCK2

 

[Lotussan]

That's exactly the point though, maybe that was Jack Taggarts true character...
Kind of a "pretty mouth" to those he found deserving of his "pretty mouth"...
If you watch, you will notice that he was totally different in his dealings with the preacher and Sarah...
Know what I mean?
OMG, I thought Jack was such a charming man...
Is it just a woman thing?

 

[Storm]

Well even his most ardent admirer would have to say a weight loss would stick two fingers up at his critics and make him look a lot better in his movies. Still, your admiration Lotus is admirable!

 

[Disciple]

Kind of a "pretty mouth" to those he found deserving of his "pretty mouth"...
If you watch, you will notice that he was totally different in his dealings with the preacher and Sarah...
Know what I mean?

Good point, Lotus. A lot of his critics seem to think Seagal is this great big bully in his films, but if they look closer they'll find that he's actually good to the people who are themselves good, and only gets rough with the ones who deserve it. In other words, he bullies the bullies. With his friends, he's like a whole nother person.

 

[MMCK2]

That's exactly the point though, maybe that was Jack Taggarts true character...
Kind of a "pretty mouth" to those he found deserving of his "pretty mouth"...
If you watch, you will notice that he was totally different in his dealings with the preacher and Sarah...
Know what I mean?
OMG, I thought Jack was such a charming man...
Is it just a woman thing?

That was'nt exactly what I meant. I had no problem with the idea of Seagal playing a romantic character for a change, I just found in that film his performance lacked fizz, and was almost as if he could'nt be bothered making it, and that he was just doing it for the paycheck. "The Patriot" I know is 'nt regarded very highly amongst his fans, but I found his character Wesley McClaren in that film to be somewhat fresh, and Seagal really upped the ante, acting wise, at least to me, and therefore I felt he gave a better performance in that film. But you know what they say about opinions.........

Peace.

MMCK2