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Seagal dtv or Van Damme dtv.

#1
I mean, i know that most of you hates Van Damme only because Steven does, but being honest, which films do you think are better? At least the Van Damme fimls are well done, whith no cheap special effects (except "Delaired").

The Only Seagal dtv films that i like are "Into The Sun" and "Belly Of The Beast".
"Black Dawn", "Out Of Reach", and "the Foreigner" are insults to cinema, and of course the thing that makes me angry is that Steven use stunts to make scenes that he is unable to do even being in shape, like the fight scenes from "Belly Of The Beast" (When did you see Steven given kicks like Van Damme?)

The Van Damme dtv films that i like are "Second In Command", "In Hell"(A very big surprise for me, a good and diferent film), and "Wake Of Death" (My favourite dtv Van Damme film).
I Didn't like much "Hard Corps" but at least is well done and of course i hate "Replicant" and "Derailed".

I like more Steven than Van Damme but i have to say that at least Van Damme is able to make his own scenes and he is in good shape. "'til Dead" will go to cinema and it has an excelent look. I hope "OUITW" go to cinema too.

Never give up Steven
 

rastafari

Well-Known Member
#2
foucellas said:
I mean, i know that most of you hates Van Damme only because Steven does, but being honest, which films do you think are better? At least the Van Damme fimls are well done, whith no cheap special effects (except "Delaired").

The Only Seagal dtv films that i like are "Into The Sun" and "Belly Of The Beast".
"Black Dawn", "Out Of Reach", and "the Foreigner" are insults to cinema, and of course the thing that makes me angry is that Steven use stunts to make scenes that he is unable to do even being in shape, like the fight scenes from "Belly Of The Beast" (When did you see Steven given kicks like Van Damme?)

The Van Damme dtv films that i like are "Second In Command", "In Hell"(A very big surprise for me, a good and diferent film), and "Wake Of Death" (My favourite dtv Van Damme film).
I Didn't like much "Hard Corps" but at least is well done and of course i hate "Replicant" and "Derailed".

I like more Steven than Van Damme but i have to say that at least Van Damme is able to make his own scenes and he is in good shape. "'til Dead" will go to cinema and it has an excelent look. I hope "OUITW" go to cinema too.

Never give up Steven
first thing...til death is going direct to video early next year not a cinema release

second...i have think seagal has made 3 films recently up to standard and they are belly of beast,into the sun and mercanery for justice.van damme has made 3 films wake of death,hard corps and in hell all his others were poor..second in command had cheap effects.in the last 5 years i would say van damme and seagal were level(3 good films each and some bad)in the quality of the films they make.van damme has the same problem as seagal in that he he is loyal to bad directors(keush/oblowitz for seagal and fellows for van damme)
 
#3
anyone who says Seagal has made better DTV's should be shot, it's a known FACT that Van Damme's are better, he gives a lot more effort to his films than Seagal. Van Damme really tries to push himself as an actor in every film and really try to make the best film possible. The only time Seagal makes a good DTV is by pure luck, because I'm sure he's goes into every project with the same attitude and wort ethic.

But I doubt Til Death will go theatrically, even though it seems like it may be his best acting performance ever and they've been showing screenings of the movie in London and California. Seagal's movies get released so fast to video, the studios don't even give it a second thought, whereas it seems Van Damme always come really really close to a small theatrical release.

And because I have nothing to do I'll rank Van Damme's DTV

1. Replicant
2. Wake of Death
3. Legionnaire
4. In Hell
5. Desert Heat
6. The Order
7. The Hard Corps
8. Second in Command
9. Derailed
 
#4
rastafari said:
first thing...til death is going direct to video early next year not a cinema release

second...i have think seagal has made 3 films recently up to standard and they are belly of beast,into the sun and mercanery for justice.van damme has made 3 films wake of death,hard corps and in hell all his others were poor..second in command had cheap effects.in the last 5 years i would say van damme and seagal were level(3 good films each and some bad)in the quality of the films they make.van damme has the same problem as seagal in that he he is loyal to bad directors(keush/oblowitz for seagal and fellows for van damme)
Loyal to bad directors, Van Damme has only made 1 film from Fellows that you've seen and the second is getting rave reviews from the people who've seen it.

the only same problems they have is budget and maybe producer. That's it, Seagal's problem is effort and always will be. He doesn't give a crap about how his films turn out, he rarely does his own fight scenes, he uses stunt doubles for walking around, he never tries to act, and he never stays around for post production. That's his problem.
 

Martin01

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#5
@SweetChinMusic: I think you are a Seagal hater right?

When I read your posts in this forum I find nearly only sentences against Seagal. I don't want to read this in a Seagal Fan Forum and I don't want to see Seagal haters here. Thanks.
 
#5
Martin01 said:
@SweetChinMusic: I think you are a Seagal hater right?

When I read your posts in this forum I find nearly only sentences against Seagal. I don't want to read this in a Seagal Fan Forum and I don't want to see Seagal haters here. Thanks.
you thought wrong, I'm a Seagal fan, read enough of my posts and you'll see a glimpse of that. Key Word is Glimpse because it's true I rarely have good things to say about the current Steven Seagal.

I'm sorry that I don't live in some make believe place where Seagal should be given props and compliments and praise and acclaim and all that crap. He doesn't deserve it, if something is bad I'll say it's bad. If something is good then I'll say it's good. Simple as that.

Thanks
 

rastafari

Well-Known Member
#5
SweetChinMusic said:
Loyal to bad directors, Van Damme has only made 1 film from Fellows that you've seen and the second is getting rave reviews from the people who've seen it.

the only same problems they have is budget and maybe producer. That's it, Seagal's problem is effort and always will be. He doesn't give a crap about how his films turn out, he rarely does his own fight scenes, he uses stunt doubles for walking around, he never tries to act, and he never stays around for post production. That's his problem.

i agree with some of what your said for instance i think seagal should put more effort into his acting like he did with into the sun and exit wounds and the films will be better.most of the time he seems like he wishes he was somewhere else but the main problem he has is signing multi picture deals(joe halpin says he is singing another for next year) and usually seagal only likes 1 of the 3 films he is offered so he acts decent in one film and then has no intrest with the other 2 films and waits for his contract to run out.but i disagree with you about simon fellows has i have seen 3 of his films before second in command,7 seconds and blessed and all are dreadful...for me shadow man is way better than second in command and hard corps was van dammes attampt at making a exit wounds type film but was no where near as good.at the end of the day both have made good and bad films i prefer seagal to van damme but i will admit when seagal makes a bad film.
 
#6
Hate is such an harsh word now dislike is better ...i think its every ones god given right whom there prefer ..but some times we can all go abit far because we are passionate about our favourite actors...ok.
 
#7
I actually think that Seagal and Van Damme are in pretty much the same place in their careers right now.

In both cases, the majority of their DTV work is awful: Attack Force, Second in Command, Black Dawn, Derailed. In both cases, there are exceptions that turn out rather well: Belly of the Beast, In Hell. I'd say that both of them run about even on good and bad DTV projects.

For their upcoming projects, the immediate future looks kind of grim for both Seagal and Van Damme. Michael Keusch might be optimistic about Flight of Fury, but I don't really trust him to make that judgement. And as far as Til Death goes, I trust Simon Fellows even less than I trust Keusch.

Both Seagal and Van Damme have dream projects tentatively in the works, both with plans to direct themselves. Prince of Pistols looks like it might be promising if it ever gets off the ground, and Kumite seems to have just as much potential. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem likely that either of these movies will start shooting any time soon. I hope I'm wrong about that.

Now, there are differences, of course. Seagal's last movie was Attack Force, which is one of his worst, but Van Damme's last movie was Hard Corps, which isn't all that bad. Personally, I just like Seagal better. That's just me.

Still, I don't think there's much separation between Seagal's DTV career and Van Damme's DTV career. They're on the same level right now, and they have the same challenges to deal with.
 
#8
Van Damme's DTV movies are much better.

In Hell reminded me of him in his prime. Plus, he actualy looked like he turned up to film them, not just send in a double
 
#9
From my point of view, Van Damme has made only one below average movie since he went DTV and that was Derailed.

All of his other movies, I've enjoyed quite a lot.

And even Derailed was better than most of Steven's DTV movies because Van Damme was in top shape, did all of his stunts and action scenes, the story of the movie made sense and the movie was packed with action wall-to-wall.

And in most of his DTV movies he has found new ways to challenge himself as an actor. His acting has improved a lot, people should be impressed by what he has achieved.

On the other hand, since Exit Wounds Steven has only made one (1) movie in which he challenged himself and that was Into The Sun.

I love pre-Belly of The Beast Steven, even Half Past Dead wasn't THAT bad, but since then, he's gotten worse and worse.

Yeah, at this moment it's Van Damme and Lundgren for me.

Look at Dolph. The Mechanik was amazingly good from my point of view and he made that movie for 8 million $. The Defender was really good as well with a very intelligent storyline and some pretty realistic action. Again, a movie made for less than what Van Damme and Seagal get as budget for their movies.

Snipes..yeah, The Marksman was one of the worst movies ever, even worse than Steven's recent movies. So...he's been quickly going downhill, BUT he at least is in shape and does all his action.

So for me, the DTV action stars of 2007 will be Lundgren and Van Damme.

Snipes may come back with Gallowalker and The Shooter...

Seagal...after Attack Force, I've given up almost all hope.


So, 2007...keep an eye out for Lundgren, it may be his year. Van Damme will keep on making good movies, for the rest, only time will tell.
 

supertom

Disgruntled fan!
#10
Le-Martin knows his stuff.

I still hold out hope that Once Upon A Time In The Hood will be good. There at least could be a good buddy element with Eddie Griffin in it. Plus the simple down the line storyline helps. As long as they don't have a voice over guy doing Steven AND Eddie (he had a couple of moments in Blast).

Lundgren for me is the man of the hour because all his upcoming projects sound promising.
 

rastafari

Well-Known Member
#11
Le-Martin said:
From my point of view, Van Damme has made only one below average movie since he went DTV and that was Derailed.

All of his other movies, I've enjoyed quite a lot.

And even Derailed was better than most of Steven's DTV movies because Van Damme was in top shape, did all of his stunts and action scenes, the story of the movie made sense and the movie was packed with action wall-to-wall.

And in most of his DTV movies he has found new ways to challenge himself as an actor. His acting has improved a lot, people should be impressed by what he has achieved.

On the other hand, since Exit Wounds Steven has only made one (1) movie in which he challenged himself and that was Into The Sun.

I love pre-Belly of The Beast Steven, even Half Past Dead wasn't THAT bad, but since then, he's gotten worse and worse.

Yeah, at this moment it's Van Damme and Lundgren for me.

Look at Dolph. The Mechanik was amazingly good from my point of view and he made that movie for 8 million $. The Defender was really good as well with a very intelligent storyline and some pretty realistic action. Again, a movie made for less than what Van Damme and Seagal get as budget for their movies.

Snipes..yeah, The Marksman was one of the worst movies ever, even worse than Steven's recent movies. So...he's been quickly going downhill, BUT he at least is in shape and does all his action.

So for me, the DTV action stars of 2007 will be Lundgren and Van Damme.

Snipes may come back with Gallowalker and The Shooter...

Seagal...after Attack Force, I've given up almost all hope.


So, 2007...keep an eye out for Lundgren, it may be his year. Van Damme will keep on making good movies, for the rest, only time will tell.

i think 2007 is going to be big for seagal as from what i have heard flight of fury is the best film he made for michael keaush with alot of action.also once upon a time sounds very good with a good cast and he also has prince of pistols next year which he is going to direct so there is 3 upcoming films from seagal that all sound good
 
#12
Yeah, but Flight of Fury, from what I know, will be distributed by the same people who backed Attack Force. And look what happened to Attack Force it was hacked up, badly done and edited and it had 90% of Steven's dialogue, dubbed by someone that does not even sound like Steven.

So I fear that the same may happen with Flight of Fury. It really doesn't matter that Steven and Keusch SHOOT some great footage if the company goes crazy and re-edits the movie to their liking. I simply don't understand why Steven can't team up with a good company. Lundgren and Van Damme have both worked with Bauer/Martinez studios and BOTH of them made great movies. I'm talking about The Defender for Dolph and Wake of Death for Van Damme.

Also, I fear for Once upon a time in the hood since it is so promising, but also so easy to screw up. Plun, Don Fauntleroy still hasn't proven himself to be a good director to me and the movie may still end up a similar mess to his recent ones.

Prince of Pistols may actually NOT happen since it would require a much bigger budget than his recent ones. And if it does happen it may be done on a small budget and end up a bad movie, a pale shade of the initially intended project.

This is what I've been saying for some time, if Steven does not look out for his career and keeps working with very bad companies and people his movie career might be over by 2008 - 2009.

Dolph has started to direct his own movies which gives him control of how the movie is filmed and he also must have control over editing which means that he can be sure his movies are realeased in a proper way.

Van Damme has always worked with good directors and he seems to have a good opinion of Simon Fellows, who has apparently done a good job on Until Death. And Van Damme is rumored to be getting in the director's chair on some future project (not Kumite) and he also has some great scripts offered to him and some good movie deals on his table.

Steven may want to direct Prince of Pistols but I fear that the project is too ambitious and may NOT find someone willing to back it up financially.


Snipes will make a sort of comeback to U.S. cinemas with Chaos which will be distributed in U.S. cinemas by Lionsgate in April 2007 and he is very, very close to getting back to being a full time cinema distributed actor. But I still have doubts about Gallowalker and The Shooter, they may end up as crap and if Chaos fails miserably at the box office he might not get another chance at a cinema release for some time. If Chaos does well at the box office, which it could since it has Jason Statham and Ryan Phillippe alongside Snipes, then one of his future projects could end up in cinemas.


Like I said, 2007 is a tough year, Lundgren may take everyone by surprise with some really good movies, Van Damme may make a serious comeback since Untile Death is produced by Moshe Diamant, longtime friend and collaborator with Van Damme and a well known and respected producer and the projects that are currently offered to him, all sound pretty good. Snipes will be in theatres with one movie (Chaos) and may release Gallowalker either on DVD or in cinemas given the amount of publicity around Snipes and this movie in recent news. Steven Seagal will have a hard time to compete unless he really puts the effort in his movies.

2007 - watch out for Lundgren, Van Damme as good as always (if not better), Snipes going back to cinemas and being EVEN more successful and Seagal - an enigma, rebirth or goodbye?
 

rastafari

Well-Known Member
#13
Le-Martin said:
Yeah, but Flight of Fury, from what I know, will be distributed by the same people who backed Attack Force. And look what happened to Attack Force it was hacked up, badly done and edited and it had 90% of Steven's dialogue, dubbed by someone that does not even sound like Steven.

So I fear that the same may happen with Flight of Fury. It really doesn't matter that Steven and Keusch SHOOT some great footage if the company goes crazy and re-edits the movie to their liking. I simply don't understand why Steven can't team up with a good company. Lundgren and Van Damme have both worked with Bauer/Martinez studios and BOTH of them made great movies. I'm talking about The Defender for Dolph and Wake of Death for Van Damme.

Also, I fear for Once upon a time in the hood since it is so promising, but also so easy to screw up. Plun, Don Fauntleroy still hasn't proven himself to be a good director to me and the movie may still end up a similar mess to his recent ones.

Prince of Pistols may actually NOT happen since it would require a much bigger budget than his recent ones. And if it does happen it may be done on a small budget and end up a bad movie, a pale shade of the initially intended project.

This is what I've been saying for some time, if Steven does not look out for his career and keeps working with very bad companies and people his movie career might be over by 2008 - 2009.

Dolph has started to direct his own movies which gives him control of how the movie is filmed and he also must have control over editing which means that he can be sure his movies are realeased in a proper way.

Van Damme has always worked with good directors and he seems to have a good opinion of Simon Fellows, who has apparently done a good job on Until Death. And Van Damme is rumored to be getting in the director's chair on some future project (not Kumite) and he also has some great scripts offered to him and some good movie deals on his table.

Steven may want to direct Prince of Pistols but I fear that the project is too ambitious and may NOT find someone willing to back it up financially.


Snipes will make a sort of comeback to U.S. cinemas with Chaos which will be distributed in U.S. cinemas by Lionsgate in April 2007 and he is very, very close to getting back to being a full time cinema distributed actor. But I still have doubts about Gallowalker and The Shooter, they may end up as crap and if Chaos fails miserably at the box office he might not get another chance at a cinema release for some time. If Chaos does well at the box office, which it could since it has Jason Statham and Ryan Phillippe alongside Snipes, then one of his future projects could end up in cinemas.


Like I said, 2007 is a tough year, Lundgren may take everyone by surprise with some really good movies, Van Damme may make a serious comeback since Untile Death is produced by Moshe Diamant, longtime friend and collaborator with Van Damme and a well known and respected producer and the projects that are currently offered to him, all sound pretty good. Snipes will be in theatres with one movie (Chaos) and may release Gallowalker either on DVD or in cinemas given the amount of publicity around Snipes and this movie in recent news. Steven Seagal will have a hard time to compete unless he really puts the effort in his movies.

2007 - watch out for Lundgren, Van Damme as good as always (if not better), Snipes going back to cinemas and being EVEN more successful and Seagal - an enigma, rebirth or goodbye?
i agree flight of fury is by the same people but keaush has said he has seen the finished version and its very good and better then shadow man and attack force.seagal has a very good cast for once upon a time like eddie griffin,jade yorker and regina hall who all make bigger and better films and flauntroy might have more control over this one.i think prince of pistols will get made and he also has another film called judas which he is going to direct according to this website.
 

Administrator

Administrator
Staff member
#14
Le-Martin said:
Snipes will be in theatres with one movie (Chaos) and may release Gallowalker either on DVD or in cinemas given the amount of publicity around Snipes and this movie in recent news. Steven Seagal will have a hard time to compete unless he really puts the effort in his movies.
Chaos was ok, it was basically the same plot as the Denzel film Inside Man. Snipes and Stratham are on screen pretty much the same amount of time. Some parts of the movie were enjoyable and it looked good too with not many visible stunt doubles or dubbing. :)
 

supertom

Disgruntled fan!
#16
Flight of Fury though, despite what the director says (because who'll bad mouth their own work before it comes out?) will almost certainly be lame. No low budget stealth fighter movie can ever turn out more than mediocre, because they are written around stock footage. It's arguably gonna end up worse than AF and above all it's a re-write of an unoriginal Michael Dudikoff movie. It's got career low written all over it. I'd urge people to look ahead to Seagal's films after that point.
 
#17
All their DTV's compared, i'll go with Van Damme.

In my opinion Seagal's problem is his lack of will to make a movie as good as possible. I get this feeling he doesn't care anymore, and that clearly shows.
Then there's Joe Halpin, he really is the worst that has ever happened to Seagal, why they stick together is beyond me?

We all know they made certain movies just for the money, Van Damme even said so in interviews, example: Derailed, knock Off, Unisol 2.
The rumor even goes so far that it's being said that Van Damme got away with 5 million dollar for his worst movie ever, Derailed....:confused:

Simon Fellows, he now directed his second Van Damme movie, and to be honest he is not the best that happened to Van Damme. I've seen all of Simon's movies and they are all lacking something which I can't put my finger on, there's just something missing.
However I have to give the guy credit for making Romania look like the U.S. when he shot Blessed.
It might be good that Van Damme lured him away from Sony and took him over to NU-Image. Maybe he gets a bit more of freedom over there, plus he now got to work with a real producer Moshe Diamant.

So I keep my fingers crossed that Til' Death is going to be among his best.
Judging from what I've heard from people who saw the screening is that it might be the performance many hoped for.

Now lets take a look at Michael Keush, and Don E....

Michael Keush.... I've seen one of his German movies, called Autobahn Racer, which was loosely based on a European game.
It was ok, had some funny scenes, but I'm sure som of the jokes where lost in the subtitles. He's not a bad director, it's just what he has to work with... which is all rubbish... An lead actor who doesn't care, a writer who cant really write good movies, bad producers who butcher his movies.

I'm sure Michael Keush would be able to deliver a better movie if he went over to lets say Lundgren or even Van Damme.

Don E... Today You Die anyone? The guy had to shoot his entire movie around stock footage from other movies. Again Seagal's fould from what I've heard some of you say... Showing up late in set, leaving early... being sued by Nu-image for not showing up... He really most have pissed up those people...
 
#18
I hate to say this but I think in the next few years Seagal wil be known for his music rather than his acting, he seems to enjoy making music and has no energy when it comes to movies, not since Exit Wounds has Steven made a movie that he seemed to have enjoyed doing, I mean come on, in Exit he used A "jet Li" trick (cables) and I think for Half Past Dead he wanted to get the same reaction he did with Ja Rule as he did with DMX, but it failed ( as did Ja's career), I agree that Into The Sun was awesome (not only because most of the movie played his own music) but as for the other movies, well we can only hope they get better.
 

rastafari

Well-Known Member
#19
i disagree i think he enjoyed making belly of beast and into the sun more than eixt wounds the difference is that on exit wounds it had a longer shoot like 2-3 months and if seagal was late on set or whatever the still had time to film everything where as if a film has a 4 weeks shoot if seagal is late etc than stock footage,doubles and voice overs are needed.even though i think once upon a time will be quite good i still expect some voice dubbing and doubles because it was filmed so quick.
 

rastafari

Well-Known Member
#20
undefeated;170964 said:
All their DTV's compared, i'll go with Van Damme.

In my opinion Seagal's problem is his lack of will to make a movie as good as possible. I get this feeling he doesn't care anymore, and that clearly shows.
Then there's Joe Halpin, he really is the worst that has ever happened to Seagal, why they stick together is beyond me?

We all know they made certain movies just for the money, Van Damme even said so in interviews, example: Derailed, knock Off, Unisol 2.
The rumor even goes so far that it's being said that Van Damme got away with 5 million dollar for his worst movie ever, Derailed....:confused:

Simon Fellows, he now directed his second Van Damme movie, and to be honest he is not the best that happened to Van Damme. I've seen all of Simon's movies and they are all lacking something which I can't put my finger on, there's just something missing.
However I have to give the guy credit for making Romania look like the U.S. when he shot Blessed.
It might be good that Van Damme lured him away from Sony and took him over to NU-Image. Maybe he gets a bit more of freedom over there, plus he now got to work with a real producer Moshe Diamant.

So I keep my fingers crossed that Til' Death is going to be among his best.
Judging from what I've heard from people who saw the screening is that it might be the performance many hoped for.

Now lets take a look at Michael Keush, and Don E....

Michael Keush.... I've seen one of his German movies, called Autobahn Racer, which was loosely based on a European game.
It was ok, had some funny scenes, but I'm sure som of the jokes where lost in the subtitles. He's not a bad director, it's just what he has to work with... which is all rubbish... An lead actor who doesn't care, a writer who cant really write good movies, bad producers who butcher his movies.

I'm sure Michael Keush would be able to deliver a better movie if he went over to lets say Lundgren or even Van Damme.

Don E... Today You Die anyone? The guy had to shoot his entire movie around stock footage from other movies. Again Seagal's fould from what I've heard some of you say... Showing up late in set, leaving early... being sued by Nu-image for not showing up... He really most have pissed up those people...
nu image sued him but when seagal said he was counter suing them the director don e said he was also suing nu image has the interfeared with has work without his permission so although seagal made errors so did the company.