Aikido or karate?

[Aikilove]

Yudansha, nice but somewhat old. Kisshomaru Ueshiba died 1999 and Tokimune Takeda died years ago.

Pyro Pete, Aikido is not religion! The founder was a very spiritual and religious man but always said that it was not necessary to believe in the same faith as he did to train and learn aikido. Aikido is Budo. A budo cannot be learned, certainly not mastered, from a book, video or dvd. Any author that claims otherwise wouldn't know aikido from a horses arse. Exscuse my language, please. A budo, like aikido, needs to be trained under the supervision of an instructor, preferably a licensed/recognized one.
Aikido is about training techniques that follow the principles of aikido. That's it. That is all there is to it. The only thing, though, is that most of these techniques are very dangerous and needs to be taught and trained correctly and with the principles backing it up.

/J

 

[Littledragon]

In my opinion Aikido and Karate are both great Martial Arts for a street self-defense situation.

Aikido is a great martial art to use on the street when dealing with multiple attackers, and Kyukoshin Karate is a great form of Karate because it is a very hard core Martial Art and the Kumite's are bare knuckle and gets you exposed to full contact fighting which what the street is. How ever if you are talking about which one is better for self defense, no art is better than another, some may have more advantages but it is the man that determines how sucessfull that art may be. I still recoomed every one know some type of grappling since 95% of street fights end up on the ground.

 

[yudansha]

I don't know much about aikido, so that little tid bit was copied/pasted.

I still don't see how someone can stand so firmly behind those statistics. I just do not believe them. I do think however that grappling art is a very helpful system to learn.

 

[Littledragon]

I still don't see how someone can stand so firmly behind those statistics. I just do not believe them. I do think however that grappling art is a very helpful system to learn.

It is not my statistics, it is Police Department statistics.

Also confirmed from a black belt that goes to my TKD who is Chief Of Police in the state.

 

[yudansha]

Police statistics are for police!

If you notice (if you haven't so already) ... most POLICE fights end up on the ground so that they're able to put handcuffs on a suspect who's not co-operating. That's where I can see that statistic apply. Police fights aren't what you call 'street-fights.'

 

[Littledragon]

If you notice (if you haven't so already) ... most POLICE fights end up on the ground so that they're able to put handcuffs on a suspect who's not co-operating. That's where I can see that statistic apply. Police fights aren't what you call 'street-fights.'

No lol I am not talking about Police Fights, I am talking about real Street Fights but the Police Departments gather those statistics.


It is a well known fact at least in the U.S. that 955 of street fights end up on the ground.

 

[yudansha]

No, don't use the word 'fact' when it comes to statistics!!!

There's just no way to get a statistic like that. What do these statisticians do? Do they go around to street corners and provoke fights to see how they end up?

Think about it. These statistics are nothing but a marketing scheme used to entice people into taking self-defense classes making more business.

 

[Littledragon]

There's just no way to get a statistic like that. What do these statisticians do? Do they go around to street corners and provoke fights to see how they end up?

Think about it. These statistics are nothing but a marketing scheme used to entice people into taking self-defense classes making more business.

Its the same way the find out how many people cigarettes kill or how many people are obese, believe me the government can do alot of stuff that we don't know about.

But btw most martial artists know that statisic while teaching self defense. Army, police and other self defense martial artists always turn to the fact that 95% of street fights end up on the ground regardless if they are teaching a grappling art or not.

Also I bought 6 DVD'S from suncoast on worlds wildest street fights and they all ended up on the ground, if any of you have seen a real street fight you know that most of the time they end up on the ground it is common knowledge.

 

[Littledragon]

Also since you live in Canada I don't know the statistics or how it is there I only know that Canada has a very low criminal statistics.

 

[yudansha]

I don't know how common that knowledge is as I never ended up on the ground...

Again, the reason behind that statistic is to increase business in the grappling art training. Military teaches such techniques because they are the easiest to grasp, yet when it comes to martial arts, the majority take up karate and TKD. You can argue this all you want, but I'm speaking from experience and from what I've seen taught and presented. Combat sambo/judo and krav-maga are some of the official systems taught to the government departments and forces. The Army/Navy (and all of the special forces) do not have the time to teach something like kung-fu as it takes much too long, and time is a critical issue in the training process of the soldier.

It's not about where I live. I'll say it again, you can believe that statistic all you want. I won't, and you won't convince me as it is very unrealistic.

 

[Littledragon]

Again, the reason behind that statistic is to increase business in the grappling art training. Military teaches such techniques because they are the easiest to grasp, yet when it comes to martial arts, the majority take up karate and TKD. You can argue this all you want, but I'm speaking from experience and from what I've seen taught and presented. Combat sambo/judo and krav-maga are some of the official systems taught to the government departments and forces. The Army/Navy (and all of the special forces) do not have the time to teach something like kung-fu as it takes much too long, and time is a critical issue in the training process of the soldier.

It's not about where I live. I'll say it again, you can believe that statistic all you want. I won't, and you won't convince me as it is very unrealistic.

Well Canadian crime is much different from American.


And since you live there I wouldn't epect you to believe it but its not a statistic that turns heads, it is the fact here in the U.S.

 

[yudansha]

Believe all that you want.

By the way, it seems that you don't know this, so just to let you know that the crime RATE in Canada and the U.S. are approximately even. (by 'rate' it means the ratio of population to the number of criminal offences)

 

[Littledragon]

By the way, it seems that you don't know this, so just to let you know that the crime RATE in Canada and the U.S. are approximately even. (by 'rate' it means the ratio of population to the number of criminal offences)

Than it has dramatically increased because when I watched Michael Moore's Bowling For Columbine documentary he spoke with Canadian Police Officials and asked how come the crime in Canada is so low to America and the Police Official gave his explanation..

 

[yudansha]

Understand something please!

The number of crime offences is NOT the same from the RATE of crime occuring.
The U.S. has more crime because the U.S. has over ten times more people living there.

 

[Littledragon]

Canada Murder Rate: 1.60 in 2000
http://strategy.sauder.ubc.ca/antweiler/public/crime.pdf



U.S. Murder Rate:6.8 in 1999
http://www.cnn.com/US/9901/02/murder.rate/

 

[yudansha]

StatsCan is the official source ... don't trust anything else.

You're giving me data that's 5 years old.

 

[Littledragon]

You're giving me data that's 5 years old.

Thats the best I could find but the whole point was that the there were jsut a couple month difference from the years 1999-2000.

 

[tenshinaikidoka]

If I may interject........

I am a police officer and I am so sorry Little, however your data is off, there is not way that 95% of all street fights end up on the ground. That is not true. There is no statistic that is accurate for that number. I can tell you that over 90% of street fights do involve multiple people. That is fact. Think about it, you get involved in a street fight, and when the person starts to lose (even if he/she doesn't start to lose) his/her buddies start coming to the aid of the friend. This makes it you against multiple people. That is a fact. So if you get taken to the ground, your going to get kicked in the head and anywhere else they can find a spot to hit you.

I guess my point is, your pulling facts that have no merit except what a grappler would want you to hear. And if that is your thing, great, grappling does help, but do not list statistics when there is no fact to them.

As far as Canadian crime, per capita, the crime rate is almost as bad as the USA. Another fact!!!! My 2 cents worth!!!!

Another note, when police are involved in a fight, yes, they usually do end up on the ground. We usually have back up (hopefully) on scene and take a suspect into custody using that method, if there was some sort of physical conflict between a suspect and officer.

 

[yudansha]

You may interject! Those 2cents are very valuable!!!

Like I was saying ...

"pulling facts that have no merit except what a grappler would want you to hear. And if that is your thing, great, grappling does help, but do not list statistics when there is no fact to them.

As far as Canadian crime, per capita, the crime rate is almost as bad as the USA. Another fact!!!! My 2 cents worth!!!!

Another note, when police are involved in a fight, yes, they usually do end up on the ground. We usually have back up (hopefully) on scene and take a suspect into custody using that method, if there was some sort of physical conflict between a suspect and officer."

Tenshinaikidoka which police department do you work for?

 

[Littledragon]

I am a police officer and I am so sorry Little, however your data is off, there is not way that 95% of all street fights end up on the ground. That is not true. There is no statistic that is accurate for that number. I can tell you that over 90% of street fights do involve multiple people. That is fact. Think about it, you get involved in a street fight, and when the person starts to lose (even if he/she doesn't start to lose) his/her buddies start coming to the aid of the friend. This makes it you against multiple people. That is a fact. So if you get taken to the ground, your going to get kicked in the head and anywhere else they can find a spot to hit you.

I guess my point is, your pulling facts that have no merit except what a grappler would want you to hear. And if that is your thing, great, grappling does help, but do not list statistics when there is no fact to them.

As far as Canadian crime, per capita, the crime rate is almost as bad as the USA. Another fact!!!! My 2 cents worth!!!!

Another note, when police are involved in a fight, yes, they usually do end up on the ground. We usually have back up (hopefully) on scene and take a suspect into custody using that method, if there was some sort of physical conflict between a suspect and officer.

But I am friends with the Chief Of Police and he told me the same thing as of the other Police officers, Blackbelt Magazine, Self Defense instructors, and even a Martial Arts Documentary: Modern Warriors.

 

[Littledragon]

But what can I say, you can't argue with people's OPINIONS..