The Greatest Fighter Alive Today!

[Bushido]

JKD was designed by Bruce Lee as a way of practical self-defence. A system that would allow you to defend yourself on the streets in the most effective manner. Just so you know, samurais do not exist anymore. It's kind of like picking out a defence system against ninjas (who do not exist either ... and that art is even banned from Japan). Why would you need to defend yourself from a samurai? Do you see an army of those somewhere trying to defend their territory? Do you see people on the streets walking with swords and glaring at people like they're going to snatch purses off of the old ladies? And, today's armies (of any nation) can wipe out any 'army' of martial artists you can think of (samurais, etc.) ... so I found it kind of strange that you were taking defence to a samurai as a need that must be fulfilled. I'm not saying that JKD is the most effective or the 'greatest' martial arts system out there ... just commenting on what you said, so take it as you will.

I think my point was completely lost on you. Also, I'd like to ask what art it is that is band from Japan. I know Nimpo-jujitsu is still practiced in Japan (the art of the ninja), and so are many of the traditional forms of Budo including Daito Ryu aiki-jujitsu.

As far as Bruce Lee is concerned I know what his intent was with Jeet Kune Do, but he failed miserably. He didn’t even come up with anything that would rival what Yip Man was teaching at the time. Many techniques in Jeet Kune Do take three movements to complete what Wing Tsun will accomplish in one. I don’t think Bruce was that good. He was just the first one on the seen, as up to that point Orientals refused to teach outsiders. Bruce Lee was just a yesterday’s Rickson Gracie. If he had fought with his teacher, Yip Man, Bruce Lee would have loss hard. As I pointed out earlier Bruce didn’t complete his training, he never learned the high level techniques in Wing Tsun.

Now as far as the Samurai forms being meant to deal with other Samurai and Ninja, and that there aren’t any anymore… What’s your point? It seems to be reasonable to me if you can deal with multiple people armed and TRAINED with swords than you can handle multiple street punks armed with chains and crowbars.

As far as any army in the world being able to deal with an army of martial artists is concerned, I have to ask again: what your point is? Are we talking about mealy attacks or are we talking about long range attacks. I think that good MA training would be an asset to any army. I don’t understand why you are talking about armies anyway. My point with bring up the roots of Daito Ryu was simple, to put things into perspective. One art was developed to deal with civil disputes verses an art with its roots in mealy specialized warfare. No comparison!

By the way Yudansha you read as though you were quite upset. I wasn’t trying to attack you or anything. I was simply trying to point out regardless of all the arts Bruce practiced he never mastered any of them, so he didn’t have a master’s perspective when he developed Jeet Kune Do, much unlike O’sensei who had letters of mastery in varying schools of Budo including Daito Ryu (which is just about unhead of). You need to so the BIG picture when you create an art not just small parts of many pictures. In Japan they have a saying, “there are many paths that lead to the summit of mount Fuji.” You can walk on each of those paths without ever reaching the top, just like you can practice many arts with out see the larger picture, because you keep starting over again. Thing is if you don’t take at least one of those paths all the way up to the top you’ll never have the perspective of see everything from the top of the mountain, although you’ll many varying perspectives of the base of the mountain.

I hope you got my points this time without getting hung up on the details.

 

[Littledragon]

Bushido:I think my point was completely lost on you. Also, I'd like to ask what art it is that is band from Japan. I know Nimpo-jujitsu is still practiced in Japan (the are of the ninja), and so are many of the traditional forms of Budo including Daito Ryu aiki-jujitsu.

As far as Bruce Lee is concerned I know what his intent was with Jeet Kune Do, but he failed miserably. He didn’t even come up with anything that would rival what Yip Man was teaching at the time. Many techniques in Jeet Kune Do take three movements to complete what Wing Tsun will accomplish in one. I don’t think Bruce was that good. He was just the first one on the seen, as up to the point Orientals refused to teach outsiders. Bruce Lee was just a yesterday’s Rickson Gracie. If he had fought with his teacher Yip Man would have loss hard. As I pointed out earlier Bruce didn’t complete his training, he never learned the high level techniques in Wing Tsun.



If Bruce ain't that good then Michael Jordan aint good at basketball!! What are you saying, do you know why he never learned the high level techniques in Wing Tsu??? Because he realized that tradition does not work on the streets. He created JKD to discard tradition and face reality. You really don't understand what you are saying. And you say many teachings in JKD take 3 movements to complete what Wing Tsu will accomplish in one?? Do you do that style? Because if u do you are very fond of it and Emin Boztepe is terrrible!! JKD in a street fight if someone throws a punch bang side kick to the knee, now that aint 3 movements buddy! Get your facts strait, you are hiding and worshiping so much behind the traditional teachings that if you ever got in a real street brawl you would see very fast what works and what doesn't!

 

[Littledragon]

“The problem is its all IF IF, Gracie actually takes action and not just talk and theory. Jiu-Jitsu is not a sport but one of the greatest martial arts besides Jeet Kune Do (imo) for street self-defense, I really don't think you have seen Gracie fight. He would kill Seagal in a "street" situation, whats Seagal gona do when he is on the ground??

Without a doubt the BEST FIGHTER OF ALL TIME IS BRUCE LEE!! ;-)”~littledragon

Does someone want to tell me what this means? I have NO idea!

“The problem is its all IF IF”

How is that any different from the Gracies? How many REALLY good martial artists have the Gracies fought that had the intent to kill on their mind? I’m going to venture a guess, none.

“Gracie actually takes action and not just talk and theory.”

No they don’t, they spare with other stylizes. How is this different from any school that spares with themselves, and please don’t give me the cross MA effectiveness crap. You need to TRULY understand your own art before you start that. I don’t know many martial artists that understand much of their art at all. That is probable why the Gracies win so often.

Jujitsu is a great martial art, but which one?

“Jiu-Jitsu is not a sport but one of the greatest martial arts besides Jeet Kune Do (imo) for street self-defense”

I’d have to agree that Jeet Kune Do is an ok street self-defense, but that’s all. It would get smash on the battlefields of futile Japan, the birth place of Daito Ryu Aiki-jujitsu. Street confrontations aren’t anywhere near as bad as 30 trained samurai with katana all wanting to gill you like a fish. (just a small reality difference there)

“I really don't think you have seen Gracie fight. He would kill Seagal in a "street" situation, whats Seagal gona do when he is on the ground??”

You are dealing with this in an entirely wrong frame. In a “street” situation, “as in a situation not including a rink and rules”, what would Gracie do once Seagal put him on the ground?? Answer: Nothing, because Seagal killed him putting him their since there weren’t any rules stopping him from doing so.




Well I’m done with the dragon, now it is time to move on to yudansha’s thought.

For starters: “Jett Kune Do is a combination of various fractions of different martial arts. It was said, that JKD contains the main 'ingredients' of martial arts. The kung-fu part in JKD is in fact inferior to Wing Chun but only because it does not include (like you said) all of the components, but JKD includes other forms that Wing Chun does not possess. So, saying that JKD in itself is inferior to Wing Chun is just silly. You really cannot compare such ... just like you cannot say who really is the greatest martial artist alive.”

Ever hear the old adage: “A jack of all trades, but a master of none”? That completely sums up my feelings about Bruce Lee and his art, and all the other “street fighters” out there.

“Hey Bushido, may I ask you something? It seems like you are an experienced martial artist. What style do you do? ... and are you ranked?”

Well thank you very much for the compliment. However I wish to refrain from answering, as an answer could only serve to do more harm than good. If I tell you the arts that I study and the experience that I have then you will judge me on that, for good or for bad. I would like whatever wisdom, knowledge, or experience I might lend to stand on it’s own in you mind of it’s own self-worth, and for you judge it’s value instead.

You obviously know not a thing about the Gracies. You obviosuly know nothing about the Jiu-Jitsu and Liuta-livra battles in Brazil. I won't take the time to explain, get the info then post your so called "facts".

 

[yudansha]

I'm not the one upset here ... and what's up with you?

"Now as far as the Samurai forms being meant to deal with other Samurai and Ninja, and that there aren’t any anymore… What’s your point? It seems to be reasonable to me if you can deal with multiple people armed and TRAINED with swords than you can handle multiple street punks armed with chains and crowbars."

My point is this: are you going to walk around with a sword or a bo every time you exit your dojo or your home? What's going to happen when an empty handed master of kenjutsu is attacked by a karateka? Got my point? (By the way, I'm not upset or anything ... it seems that YOU are trying to defend yourself when I didn't say anything to you that would make you have to do that)

By the way, Bruce Lee might not have completed his Winch Chun, but he certainly did with Karate ... that's what Bruce Lee is known for mostly (well, as well as his body building routines that remained quite a secret until not so long ago). You should probably read up (somewhere where the author has good credentials) on Bruce Lee more ... Gracie's BJJ would not stand against Bruce Lee's forms as Bruce Lee was so much more powerful (I'm not talking muscle mass here).

The Tokugawa family’s unification of Japan brought an end to ninja activities, and in the 17th century the practice of ninjutsu was banned. Ninjutsu was so feared by the government that even mentioned of it brought the death penalty.

 

[Littledragon]

"Now as far as the Samurai forms being meant to deal with other Samurai and Ninja, and that there aren’t any anymore… What’s your point? It seems to be reasonable to me if you can deal with multiple people armed and TRAINED with swords than you can handle multiple street punks armed with chains and crowbars."

My point is this: are you going to walk around with a sword or a bo every time you exit your dojo or your home? What's going to happen when an empty handed master of kenjutsu is attacked by a karateka? Got my point? (By the way, I'm not upset or anything ... it seems that YOU are trying to defend yourself when I didn't say anything to you that would make you have to do that)

By the way, Bruce Lee might not have completed his Winch Chun, but he certainly did with Karate ... that's what Bruce Lee is known for mostly (well, as well as his body building routines that remained quite a secret until not so long ago). You should probably read up (somewhere where the author has good credentials) on Bruce Lee more ... Gracie's BJJ would not stand against Bruce Lee's forms as Bruce Lee was so much more powerful (I'm not talking muscle mass here).

The Tokugawa family’s unification of Japan brought an end to ninja activities, and in the 17th century the practice of ninjutsu was banned. Ninjutsu was so feared by the government that even mentioned of it brought the death penalty.

It is not BJJ would not stand a chance it is the artist that would not stand a chance against Bruce Lee. Bruce Lee is an all around fighter and the greatest.

BTW he never studied Karate.

 

[yudansha]

News flash.

Oh yes he did. He even taught karate and gave lessons to many, including Chuck Norris.

 

[yudansha]

One more thing to add:

Also, Ninjutsu 'was' banned when peace came to Japan in 1868 (Meiji Restoration). The teachings of Ninjustsu went underground and were brought to modern times by the 33rd Grandmaster, To****sugu Takamatsu. As the lore of the Ninja were passed down to the 34th Grandmaster, Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi (Dr. Hatsumi is classed as a living treasure in Japan), Ninjutsu was made available to the Western World for the first time in the 1970's. It came to the U.K & Europe in 1983.

 

[Bushido]

LittleDragon: “If Bruce ain't that good then Michael Jordan aint good at basketball!! What are you saying, do you know why he never learned the high level techniques in Wing Tsu??? Because he realized that tradition does not work on the streets. He created JKD to discard tradition and face reality. You really don't understand what you are saying. And you say many teachings in JKD take 3 movements to complete what Wing Tsu will accomplish in one?? Do you do that style? Because if u do you are very fond of it and Emin Boztepe is terrrible!! JKD in a street fight if someone throws a punch bang side kick to the knee, now that aint 3 movements buddy! Get your facts strait, you are hiding and worshiping so much behind the traditional teachings that if you ever got in a real street brawl you would see very fast what works and what doesn't!”

Man, do you ever stop and think? You are so full of crap, one could mistake you for a portapotty at Woodstock!

I cannot believe your opening support for your argument is: “If Bruce ain't that good then Michael Jordan aint good at basketball!!” What, because you say so? Well: If Jimmy off South Park ain’t that good a Martial Artist then Michael Jordan ain’t good at basketball!! You need to think more and support your arguments instead of making statements like they are facts, and that everyone should just know it because you say it!


“What are you saying, do you know why he never learned the high level techniques in Wing Tsu??? Because he realized that tradition does not work on the streets. . He created JKD to discard tradition and face reality.”

Well than he was an idiot! So what are you saying, that Bruce Lee didn’t need anyone to ever teach him MAs, that he was born knowing how to kick everyone’s butt? No? So then he had to find a teacher that could teach him how. Understand a teacher that could “TEACH HIM HOW!” So Yip Man knew everything he taught his student Bruce Lee because HE TAUGHT IT, so Yip Man had that perspective, and Yip Man knew the rest of Wing Tsun so he had the BIG picture; yet Yip Man disagreed with Bruce and continued to teach Wing Tsun. If the high levels of Wing Tsun aren’t effective, then the low levels aren’t either! Because the high level are just a continued refinement of what you have been taught. That would mean Bruce didn’t know crap, at all! I try to give him more credit than that! The crap you are trying to spew just doesn’t add up.


“Emin Boztepe is terrrible!! JKD in a street fight if someone throws a punch bang side kick to the knee, now that aint 3 movements buddy!”

GOD I’d love to play with you, because you need an education. It’s not that easy! You with your every utterance completely betray the fact you know nothing about real martial arts. You would never do that to a true Wing Tsun stylist. I’d love to see you do that to Emin, he’d brake you like a twig, and if you’re lucky only once before you hit the ground!

“Get your facts strait, you are hiding and worshiping so much behind the traditional teachings that if you ever got in a real street brawl you would see very fast what works and what doesn't!”

You need to wake up, pull your head out of your monitor, and start the boot sequence of your brain. How the H*LL do you think the martial arts came about, huh? I’ll give you a hint: They weren’t developed in the same fashion as your inane commentary. Do you think “street” situations have only been around since the creation of America? Do think street brawls didn’t happen over in China, where Wing Tsun was devised? Let me clue you into this thing call “reality”, you may even want to visit. In china, and especially the time period in which Wing Tsun was developed you were much more likely to be in a physical confrontation than you are anywhere in present day America. These confrontations were often times life or death. If these stylizes didn’t work, why then were they developed? Why did people ask to me taught them? Because someone witnessed a 80 pound Chinese girl, who knew Wing Tsun, beat the sh*t out of a men three times bigger than her.

Try using some logic and stop your TV Hollywood idealized worshiping. Let me tell you something, Americans are wusses in a hand to hand fight, and martial arts are very different in there places of origin. It is very easy to beat up a bunch of people that learned an inferior form of their system. That is all this UFC stuff is, and don’t even bring up the Gracies beating people over in Brazil because it’s not any different over there. Like I said, If Rickson or any other hot shot wannabe thinks he’s great; he can just go run his mouth off at Hombu.

 

[Bushido]

"Now as far as the Samurai forms being meant to deal with other Samurai and Ninja, and that there aren’t any anymore… What’s your point? It seems to be reasonable to me if you can deal with multiple people armed and TRAINED with swords than you can handle multiple street punks armed with chains and crowbars."

My point is this: are you going to walk around with a sword or a bo every time you exit your dojo or your home? What's going to happen when an empty handed master of kenjutsu is attacked by a karateka? Got my point? (By the way, I'm not upset or anything ... it seems that YOU are trying to defend yourself when I didn't say anything to you that would make you have to do that)

By the way, Bruce Lee might not have completed his Winch Chun, but he certainly did with Karate ... that's what Bruce Lee is known for mostly (well, as well as his body building routines that remained quite a secret until not so long ago). You should probably read up (somewhere where the author has good credentials) on Bruce Lee more ... Gracie's BJJ would not stand against Bruce Lee's forms as Bruce Lee was so much more powerful (I'm not talking muscle mass here).

The Tokugawa family’s unification of Japan brought an end to ninja activities, and in the 17th century the practice of ninjutsu was banned. Ninjutsu was so feared by the government that even mentioned of it brought the death penalty.

You do know the forms of Budo DO extend beyond that of kenjitsu, right? Which jujitsu, Daito Ryu, and Aikido are all part of. (that's not an exhaustive list)

Good to hear you’re not up set, just making sure.

 

[yudansha]

This has got to be the best and funniest thing...

Bushido you are a true fighting comedian. Man, LOL with 'comebacks' like that you don't need to know how to fight, because you opponent would feel weak in the knees out of laughter.

Bushido I agree with you almost 100%. Many who admire judo/jujitsu or other grappling arts (i.e. sambo) and that say that these are the ultimate styles are always disregarding Kung-Fu, its origins and the way of life that such stylists lead to become great defenders.

You got to give more credit to Bruce Lee though. He was not (as you called him) an 'idiot' because he was smart enough to develop his own style that worked for him (and all his challengers can probably tell you that, although it's probably not that easy to admit defeat).

American martial arts styles (and 'modifications') have been a minus to some respect, but you cannot go off calling all martial artists from the U.S. incompetent. Take a look at Chuck Norris's career. He was and still is a superb martial artist.

And Bushido ... I didn't realize you were talking about Budo ... I thought you meant kenjutsu as that was the basis of many of your arguments at the beginning.

 

[Littledragon]

Oh yes he did. He even taught karate and gave lessons to many, including Chuck Norris.

He never studied Karate. Damn you need to get your facts straight and then your excuse is oh I am still too young. Get the facts!

 

[Littledragon]

LittleDragon: “If Bruce ain't that good then Michael Jordan aint good at basketball!! What are you saying, do you know why he never learned the high level techniques in Wing Tsu??? Because he realized that tradition does not work on the streets. He created JKD to discard tradition and face reality. You really don't understand what you are saying. And you say many teachings in JKD take 3 movements to complete what Wing Tsu will accomplish in one?? Do you do that style? Because if u do you are very fond of it and Emin Boztepe is terrrible!! JKD in a street fight if someone throws a punch bang side kick to the knee, now that aint 3 movements buddy! Get your facts strait, you are hiding and worshiping so much behind the traditional teachings that if you ever got in a real street brawl you would see very fast what works and what doesn't!”

Man, do you ever stop and think? You are so full of crap, one could mistake you for a portapotty at Woodstock!

I cannot believe your opening support for your argument is: “If Bruce ain't that good then Michael Jordan aint good at basketball!!” What, because you say so? Well: If Jimmy off South Park ain’t that good a Martial Artist then Michael Jordan ain’t good at basketball!! You need to think more and support your arguments instead of making statements like they are facts, and that everyone should just know it because you say it!


“What are you saying, do you know why he never learned the high level techniques in Wing Tsu??? Because he realized that tradition does not work on the streets. . He created JKD to discard tradition and face reality.”

Well than he was an idiot! So what are you saying, that Bruce Lee didn’t need anyone to ever teach him MAs, that he was born knowing how to kick everyone’s butt? No? So then he had to find a teacher that could teach him how. Understand a teacher that could “TEACH HIM HOW!” So Yip Man knew everything he taught his student Bruce Lee because HE TAUGHT IT, so Yip Man had that perspective, and Yip Man knew the rest of Wing Tsun so he had the BIG picture; yet Yip Man disagreed with Bruce and continued to teach Wing Tsun. If the high levels of Wing Tsun aren’t effective, then the low levels aren’t either! Because the high level are just a continued refinement of what you have been taught. That would mean Bruce didn’t know crap, at all! I try to give him more credit than that! The crap you are trying to spew just doesn’t add up.


“Emin Boztepe is terrrible!! JKD in a street fight if someone throws a punch bang side kick to the knee, now that aint 3 movements buddy!”

GOD I’d love to play with you, because you need an education. It’s not that easy! You with your every utterance completely betray the fact you know nothing about real martial arts. You would never do that to a true Wing Tsun stylist. I’d love to see you do that to Emin, he’d brake you like a twig, and if you’re lucky only once before you hit the ground!

“Get your facts strait, you are hiding and worshiping so much behind the traditional teachings that if you ever got in a real street brawl you would see very fast what works and what doesn't!”

You need to wake up, pull your head out of your monitor, and start the boot sequence of your brain. How the H*LL do you think the martial arts came about, huh? I’ll give you a hint: They weren’t developed in the same fashion as your inane commentary. Do you think “street” situations have only been around since the creation of America? Do think street brawls didn’t happen over in China, where Wing Tsun was devised? Let me clue you into this thing call “reality”, you may even want to visit. In china, and especially the time period in which Wing Tsun was developed you were much more likely to be in a physical confrontation than you are anywhere in present day America. These confrontations were often times life or death. If these stylizes didn’t work, why then were they developed? Why did people ask to me taught them? Because someone witnessed a 80 pound Chinese girl, who knew Wing Tsun, beat the sh*t out of a men three times bigger than her.

Try using some logic and stop your TV Hollywood idealized worshiping. Let me tell you something, Americans are wusses in a hand to hand fight, and martial arts are very different in there places of origin. It is very easy to beat up a bunch of people that learned an inferior form of their system. That is all this UFC stuff is, and don’t even bring up the Gracies beating people over in Brazil because it’s not any different over there. Like I said, If Rickson or any other hot shot wannabe thinks he’s great; he can just go run his mouth off at Hombu.

You are not worth arguing with..

 

[Bushido]

Bushido you are a true fighting comedian. Man, LOL with 'comebacks' like that you don't need to know how to fight, because you opponent would feel weak in the knees out of laughter.

Bushido I agree with you almost 100%. Many who admire judo/jujitsu or other grappling arts (i.e. sambo) and that say that these are the ultimate styles are always disregarding Kung-Fu, its origins and the way of life that such stylists lead to become great defenders.

You got to give more credit to Bruce Lee though. He was not (as you called him) an 'idiot' because he was smart enough to develop his own style that worked for him (and all his challengers can probably tell you that, although it's probably not that easy to admit defeat).

American martial arts styles (and 'modifications') have been a minus to some respect, but you cannot go off calling all martial artists from the U.S. incompetent. Take a look at Chuck Norris's career. He was and still is a superb martial artist.

And Bushido ... I didn't realize you were talking about Budo ... I thought you meant kenjutsu as that was the basis of many of your arguments at the beginning.

Listen… I don't mean any disrespect to Bruce Lee. Bruce Lee did a great thing for the Martial Arts community, by opening up the MAs to America. That is why he was voted “Best friend to the Martial Arts”. The thing is when people like littledragon start making more out of, or changing him from the person he is, they disrespect the person and the martial arts. Bruce Lee was very good, but he wasn’t GREAT. He wasn’t better than Yip Man, and he never said he was. He was not better than O’sensei, and he never said he was. He was not better Sokaku Takeda, and he never said he was. There are people in the martial arts that become so good that they are just untouchable, Bruce Lee was not one of these people. He was very good in his own right, even Yip Man admitted as much, but he also said Bruce Lee lacked focus and direction. To which Bruce said he didn’t believe he lack focus, but that he agree that he lacked direction. Bruce Lee did NOT THINK of himself as the best martial artist ever, or even of his time, and I think it dishonors his memory to say he was.

What is Jeet Kune Do? Jeet Kune Do was not intended to be better than Wing Tsun, and Bruce Lee and Yip Man both said as much.

1) Jeet Kune Do was intended to take a person who doesn’t know how to defined himself and make him dangerous very quickly. (this it did) After just a few months a practitioner can be very capable of protecting himself.

2) Bruce Lee wanted to prove you could from an art out of adapting different stiles together. This he achieved too.

Never was it Bruce Lee’s intent to produce the world’s most powerful system. He just wanted to come up with something you could learn faster than Wing Tsun.

You see a lot of people don’t understand these things and they aren’t willing to spend the time and put forth the devotion to master their system, so they see these things like JKD and BJJ and say, “look these are the best because after this amount time look at the results.” So then they make ungrounded assertions and say things like: “these are the only systems that are effective." These people disrespect the martial arts and under mind everything Bruce Lee worked so hard to achieve and then say it’s in his name.

I didn’t mean he was an idiot. That is why I said, “That would mean Bruce didn’t know crap, at all! I try to give him more credit than that!” I was saying that in regard to JKD was meant to replace WT, and that is bull pucky. So in essence I was saying LD is an idiot.

So for the record: I have a lot of respect for Bruce Lee, unlike the Gracies. I think the Gracies are full of themselves and a disgrace to the martial art community. Maybe Rickson is different from the rest of them, but if he is he doesn’t think he is the best on the Earth. And if that is the case to run around saying so greatly disrespects him!

 

[Bushido]

About Chuck, you know he did study with Bruce and over in the Orient? I don’t consider him an American Martial Arts, nor do I consider Seagal one. I think they both are very good.

What do I mean by American martial artists? I’m talking about all those corner Karata schools out there, and all the crap Aikido schools, and all the other arts who some person in the military went over to Japan got a black belt and now has a school. In some of these cases they are self-proclaimed 6th degree masters! Shodan is not good enough to be teaching as the head instructor. Yodan is the BARE minimum, 4th degree, and that’s a REAL 4th degree. Every fight I’ve seen these BJJ guy win it has been up against one of these people, or maybe someone who has studied under someone competent to teach but now they have a black belt and they think they are God’s gift to the martial arts community.

Ok, so I’m not talking about all the American martial artists, just 95% of them. The 5% that could beat the snot out of anyone at UFC won’t fight.

 

[Bushido]

He never studied Karate. Damn you need to get your facts straight and then your excuse is oh I am still too young. Get the facts!

You need to get YOUR facts straight! Bruce studied with Chuck, they both taught each other stuff. Where do you think the non Wing Tsun aspect of JKD come from? He studied with a lot of people, and a lot of different things.

 

[Bushido]

You are not worth arguing with..

You’re right… …the casualties would be far too great!

First time I’ve witnessed, keep up the good work!

 

[tenshinaikidoka]

When dealing with a street fight, I have noticed that it is never usually a one on one fight. So if one were to go to the ground, that would leave him/her vulnerable to the friends of the attacker coming up and kicking you in the head or something more severe. I guess my point is that when your on the ground, you have to deal with the person you are on the ground with, unfortunately, you lose focus on the people and events around you, which is very dangerous.

I personally used to like watching the very first UFC's, with Royce, however, I quickly realized that once the fight went to the ground, all that happened was someone was holding someone else, and then they tried for an arm bar or kneck stretch, then the person would "tap out" and Royce would win. There are no "tap outs" in real life, as far as I know. And further more, I would not let someone take me to the ground. If I was going to the ground, chances are I would know more than the person taking me down. A true martial artist would not put himself in the position to attack someone without warrant. And if they did, they have no respect or honor.

So, I say this, Gracies are good for sport, and nothing more.

 

[yudansha]

As always, Tenshin and Bushido...

I'm in complete agreement with you.

Bushido: I know that Chuck and Bruce trained together (so did Jackie Chan and even Jet Li for a very brief amount of time) ... now I understand what you meant by 'American' martial arts (and I agree that a yondan is a 'bare' minimum for an instructor) ... right, Bruce was a very humble man and never did he say 'greatest' or 'best' about anything that he did or trained in (it is however nearly impossible to argue who really was the 'greatest' martial artist) ... and I do see your respect for Bruce Lee.

Tenshin: yes! The martial artist needs to know what his/her art's purpose is and not give in to the opponent who tries something out of the context (i.e. taking the aikidoka to the ground ... the aikidoka would be more likely to break the opponents arm or dislocate the opponent's shoulder before the opponent could grab and try to toss the aikidoka to the ground).

LittleDragon: this, in particular, is not really about your age, it is about the information that you obtain ... I suggest you look deeper into the biographies if you plan to put up some sort of an argument.

 

[yudansha]

Bruce ... and his karate:

The late Bruce Lee conceived Jeet Kune Do (way of the intercepting fist) in 1967. When asked to describe his new way of fighting, Lee said, “To create a method of fighting is pretty much like putting a pound of water into wrapping paper and shaping it.”

His concept was to create a system void of rules, he said of his system that it possesses everything but in itself is possessed by nothing.

Lee was noted for taking the best of many systems and implementing those techniques into Jeet Kune Do.

At any given time his art can resemble Thai boxing, wing chung, wrestling, or karate.

Its weaponry resembles Filipino escrima and kali, and, at long range, northern Chinese gung-fu or tae kwon do.

According to Lee, the efficiency of style depends upon circumstances and range: a staff, for example would be the wrong weapon to bring into a telephone booth to fight, whereas a knife would be appropriate.

In Jeet Kune Do, kicks are delivered low, usually to the opponent’s shin or knee, because this is much quicker than the high kicks used in many other martial arts.

Lee also believed that a style should never be the last word in application of techniques.

An individual must be flexible in body and action, to be prepared for the unexpected the key to success in a fight.

Different situations require different techniques, being able to flow with the change of events was very important to Lee when he developed Jeet Kune Do.

“Jeet Kune Do is just a name, a boat to get one across the river,” Lee once remarked. “Once across it is to be discarded and not to be carried on one’s back.

Today Dan Inosanto and Richard Bustillo, two of his original students, carry on the legacy of Bruce Lee and Jeet Kune Do.

(This is just a brief ... WBB)

 

[Littledragon]

You need to get YOUR facts straight! Bruce studied with Chuck, they both taught each other stuff. Where do you think the non Wing Tsun aspect of JKD come from? He studied with a lot of people, and a lot of different things.

I know he exchanged information about their styles with Chuck but Yudansha was putting it like Bruce actually took Karate and made it sound like he was taking classes which was not true.


And the non Wing Tsu aspect of JKD came from a lot of stuff the french street fighting art of Savate and Muay Thai thats where came the leg kicks, the grappling aspects of wrestling and judo and jiu-jitsu, the boxing techniques, he took bits and pieces from styles he thought had some good aspects in them and formed them into one.

 

[Littledragon]

When dealing with a street fight, I have noticed that it is never usually a one on one fight. So if one were to go to the ground, that would leave him/her vulnerable to the friends of the attacker coming up and kicking you in the head or something more severe. I guess my point is that when your on the ground, you have to deal with the person you are on the ground with, unfortunately, you lose focus on the people and events around you, which is very dangerous.

I personally used to like watching the very first UFC's, with Royce, however, I quickly realized that once the fight went to the ground, all that happened was someone was holding someone else, and then they tried for an arm bar or kneck stretch, then the person would "tap out" and Royce would win. There are no "tap outs" in real life, as far as I know. And further more, I would not let someone take me to the ground. If I was going to the ground, chances are I would know more than the person taking me down. A true martial artist would not put himself in the position to attack someone without warrant. And if they did, they have no respect or honor.

So, I say this, Gracies are good for sport, and nothing more.

All their street fights in Brazil proved that Gracie Jiu- Jitsu is not just a sport. I advise you to read The Gracie Way or buy the video tape Gracie's In Action where it shows some of the most toughest street fights. People make it sound like what they do in the ring is what they will do in the street which is false. In a street fight the winner is of course not by someone tapping out but when someone is completley beaten up, if a MARTIAL ARTIST gets into that situation what I learned in Aikido class is if I can use a technique that effectivley defends myself without seriously hurting the attacker than I have achieved my goal. My sensei said what if you hurt them real bad and the next time they track you down with 5 guys with bats. So I say to my sensei what shall I do? He says attack, he grabs my rest and in a circular motion puts me down, also he uses an irimi on me.

Same with Jiu-Jitsu, choke them till they can't take anymore without pounding them to death. But please people dfon't say Gracie Jiu-Jitsu is for sport because if you saw the Gracie In Action Tape you saw Rolls Gracie defeat Karate Masters, you saw Rolls defeat Muay Thai champions, you saw Rickson Defeat the toughest street fighters and Karate and Kung-Fu practicioners, Jason De Lucia a jung fu practicioner which Royce beat in UFC2 was apart of the Gracie challenge and lost. But if you haven't been exposed to real Gracie Jiu-Jitsu please don't make a judgement with the little facts you have.

Peace