Which is unAmerican!

Hallarian

New Member
Car companies move their factories to Mexico and claim it's free market. Toy companies outsource to Chinise companies and that's free market. Banks incorporate in Bermuda to escape US taxes. My HP printer is made in Mexico and we buy shirts from Bengladesh. We purchase almost everything from outside the US especially shoes except the socks are made here.

But heaven help the patients who dare buy prescriptions from Canada even though the drugs are made by a US company. That's un American? But, the Defence department, the VA, and most other federal departments buy foreign drugs,

Phizer is one of the largest contributors to the Reoublican Party but my Republican Senators say we shouldn't buy Phizer drugs from Canada although they get their own from the US government who buys from Canada. Pretty fishy, I think. BUSHY SAYS IT'S UNDERCUTTING THE AMERICAN SYSTEM FOR US TO BUY WHAT HE GETS FROM HIA OWN HEALTH CARE INSURANCE.

Not just fishy, it's flip flopping dishonest.
 

jhogan

New Member
Hallarian said:
Car companies move their factories to Mexico and claim it's free market. Toy companies outsource to Chinise companies and that's free market. Banks incorporate in Bermuda to escape US taxes. My HP printer is made in Mexico and we buy shirts from Bengladesh. We purchase almost everything from outside the US especially shoes except the socks are made here.

But heaven help the patients who dare buy prescriptions from Canada even though the drugs are made by a US company. That's un American? But, the Defence department, the VA, and most other federal departments buy foreign drugs,

Phizer is one of the largest contributors to the Reoublican Party but my Republican Senators say we shouldn't buy Phizer drugs from Canada although they get their own from the US government who buys from Canada. Pretty fishy, I think. BUSHY SAYS IT'S UNDERCUTTING THE AMERICAN SYSTEM FOR US TO BUY WHAT HE GETS FROM HIA OWN HEALTH CARE INSURANCE.

Not just fishy, it's flip flopping dishonest.


I haven't heard about the US guv buying from overseas, but the reason WE are not aboe to do it is because the drugs from overseas are not tested / approved by the FDA - for safety reasons. If you want to try some out without government approval, go for it, but I wouldn't trust any drugs coming from overseas.
 
try again

sorry youre already using foreign meds..

I know I bought Therograms one of the best for Martial Artists and guess where it was made CHINA! foynd it underthe wrap part couldnt read it outside Thanks alot.

I never would have guessed that when I bought it.

I see nothing wrong with using meds from Canada theyre American co's
I would rather save money than line stockholders pockets. Just like cereral its got to 4.00 a box I buy off brands (you have to know which ones) and found in 2 cases the parent company makes cereal for them too I pd 1.50 instead of 4 for the same stuff different name.
 

Hallarian

New Member
Not true!

jhogan said:
I haven't heard about the US guv buying from overseas, but the reason WE are not aboe to do it is because the drugs from overseas are not tested / approved by the FDA - for safety reasons. If you want to try some out without government approval, go for it, but I wouldn't trust any drugs coming from overseas.

The drugs are made by an American Company (Uusually Phizer the biggest) most right here in the US then bought by Canada or other countries. I have a number of meds in my stock room approved by the FDA made in India purchased through my wholesaler. My VA patients often bring in the meds they got from the VA and peeling off the VA sticker it says bought in Canada but made here. Don't be brainwashed!
 

jhogan

New Member
SAS Guardian Angel said:
sorry youre already using foreign meds..

I know I bought Therograms one of the best for Martial Artists and guess where it was made CHINA! foynd it underthe wrap part couldnt read it outside Thanks alot.

I never would have guessed that when I bought it.

I see nothing wrong with using meds from Canada theyre American co's
I would rather save money than line stockholders pockets. Just like cereral its got to 4.00 a box I buy off brands (you have to know which ones) and found in 2 cases the parent company makes cereal for them too I pd 1.50 instead of 4 for the same stuff different name.

Doesn't have to do whether they are FOREIGN, but whether they have seal of FDA approval.
 

Mama San

Administrator
You're right, Dixie!!!
But Bush and his cohorts have nothing to worry about!
They were millionaires before they went into office! An
ordinary person, like you or me, could never run for the
presidency, congress or senate. We don't have enough
money.
The rights of the American people to make a decent living
went out the window the minute that our jobs went north,
south, east and west! Due to the greed of the large manufacturing
companies and our government, the USA is going to hell in a hand
basket. We have people out of work because the jobs went overseas,
they're losing their homes because without jobs they can no longer
afford to pay for them. The "government" will tell you that the "jobless
rate" has gone way, way down!! They are right, it has. What they are
not telling the American people is that once you "draw out" of your
unemployment payments, you are no longer counted as one of the
unemployed! You are nothing! You do not exist! And you still do not
have a job!
But Bushy baby keeps saying that we are getting hundreds of thousands
of new jobs! WHERE????????? How many people can McDonalds, Wendy's,
Burger King hire??
We are no longer a manufacturing country, we have become a country
of consumers. But it's a toss up as to how long we can even be consumers.
The products from our jobs that went overseas come back into this country
higher in price than when they were made here. You can bet your life that they
are not paying a decent wage to those workers over there, they don't have
to, thus more and bigger profits for them!
The drug, Lipitor, and several other drugs are being shipped into the USA even
as we speak! Where is it now manufactured? In England! They ship it here and to
Canada. Same drugs but 3 to 4 times higher in price here than when it is sold in
Canada. Please do not get me wrong. I have nothing against the workers over
seas making a living for their families but it irks me to know that it is done at
the expense of our workers and their families here.
It does worry me that our children and grand children are going to be in a lot
worse shape than we could have ever imagined.
Someone should remind the big companies and our elustrious government that
if we have no jobs, we have no money and with no money, we cannot buy!! It's
just that simple!!
Well, guess I've rattled on long enough! LOL!!! Nobody listens to old people anyway!
God bless,
Mama san
P.S. - JHogan, Canada is not over seas and they get their meds from the very
same people that we do. And as for being tested and approved by our FDA, forget
it!! If you think for one second that some of the FDA "people" are not being paid under
the table to OK certain drugs, then think again!! Drugs are being shoved on to
the market every day without ever being tested. After several hundred people have
died then they concern themselves with testing, maybe.
Just thought you all should know!
 

jhogan

New Member
Hallarian said:
The drugs are made by an American Company (Uusually Phizer the biggest) most right here in the US then bought by Canada or other countries. I have a number of meds in my stock room approved by the FDA made in India purchased through my wholesaler. My VA patients often bring in the meds they got from the VA and peeling off the VA sticker it says bought in Canada but made here. Don't be brainwashed!

Actually, some importation IS allowed:

http://www.fda.gov/ora/import/pipinfo.htm

To whit:

The General Guidance Section states that FDA should consider not taking enforcement actions against such importation:

"when 1) the intended use [of the drug] is unapproved and for a serious condition for which effective treatment may not be available domestically either through commercial or clinical means; 2) there is no known commercialization or promotion to persons residing in the U.S. by those involved in the distribution of the product at issue; 3) the product is considered not to represent an unreasonable risk; and 4) the individual seeking to import the product affirms in writing that it is for the patient's own use (generally not more than 3 month supply) and provides the name and address of the doctor licensed in the U.S. responsible for his or her treatment with the product or provides evidence that the product is for the continuation of a treatment begun in a foreign country." (Emphasis added)

The above guidance does not specify that a U.S. citizen may import an unapproved drug only with a prescription from a U.S. licensed physician, or that a foreign citizen may import an unapproved new drug only with a foreign prescription. Rather, to ensure that the importation is for personal use only (and not for resale), and to ensure that the use of the unapproved new drug sought to be imported into the U.S. is supervised and does not represent an unreasonable risk, the guidance provides that the individual affirm in writing that the drug is for his or her personal use, and provide either the name and address of the U.S. licensed physician who will supervise its use or some evidence that the treatment was begun in a foreign country and that the drugs are being imported to continue/conclude the already begun treatment. Thus, while not the only documentation, either a U.S. or foreign prescription, along with an affirmation of personal use, could be supplied as evidence that this factor exists.

The guidance also provides that the importation should generally not represent more than a 3 month supply of the unapproved products. The purpose for this provision is in keeping with the intent that the guidance relate to only drugs for personal use, not commercial distribution. As the document sets forth only guidance, the 3 month limitation is not a "requirement" or a "restriction." If an individual presents evidence that he or she requires more than a 3 month supply for the full treatment of his or her illness, and it appears that the reordering of a one or two month additional amount may be inappropriate, FDA may consider the release of the full amount. Similarly, if a foreign traveler to the U.S. seeks to import unapproved drugs during his or her stay in the U.S., the amount sought to be imported should represent the amount needed for personal use during the U.S. visit. Where the evidence appears to indicate that the drugs may be imported for commercial distribution, the guidance provides that FDA should refuse admission of such drugs.

It must be emphasized that the intent of the personal use importation guidance is to save FDA resources and to generally permit, through the exercise of enforcement discretion, medical treatments sought by individuals that are not otherwise available in the United States (where such treatments are not promoted/commercialized in the U.S.). Thus, foreign-made chemical versions of drugs available in the U.S. are not intended to be covered by the policy. For example, a person may decide that his or her FDA approved heart medication is cheaper in Mexico, and attempt to import the unapproved version of the drug from Mexico. FDA cannot assure that such products have been properly manufactured and are effective; therefore, given that such products are available in the U.S., their use would present an unreasonable risk and the guidance would not apply (unless the person seeking their importation could establish that the drugs were needed to refill a prescription while traveling or were otherwise needed while traveling).

AND:

We appreciate that there is a significant cost differential between drugs available here and those in other countries. However, many drugs sold in foreign countries as "foreign versions" of approved prescription drugs sold in the United States are often of unknown quality with inadequate directions for use and may pose a risk to the patient's health. FDA approves a drug on the basis of scientific data proving it to be safe and effective. FDA approved labeling provides information on how and when the drug can be used to maximize effectiveness and minimize any harmful side effects. The manufacturing facilities and procedures for approved products are also carefully regulated by FDA to ensure product integrity. Since FDA cannot assure the consumer that the drug purchased in the foreign country would be the same product his or her physician's prescription is written for, we recommend the product covered by the prescription be acquired in the United States.



SO, SOME IMPORTATION IS ALLOWED, BUT IF YOU WANT TO TRY UNTESTED DRUGS ON YOUR BODY, FEEL FREE. I AM ONE THAT'LL STAY AWAY. TOO MANY UNAPPROVED DRUGS IN THOSE. THEY DID A STUDY OF UNAPPROVED IMPORTS COMING IN AND FOUND OVER 80% OF THOSE, THE SO CALLED "GENERIC" BRANDS OF WHAT WE HAVE IN THE US DID, IN FACT, HAVE UNAPPROVED INGREDIENTS THAT WERE NOT IN THE US BRAND. SO GOOD LUCK WITH THAT....
 

jhogan

New Member
Mama san said:
You're right, Dixie!!!
But Bush and his cohorts have nothing to worry about!
They were millionaires before they went into office! An
ordinary person, like you or me, could never run for the
presidency, congress or senate. We don't have enough
money.
The rights of the American people to make a decent living
went out the window the minute that our jobs went north,
south, east and west! Due to the greed of the large manufacturing
companies and our government, the USA is going to hell in a hand
basket. We have people out of work because the jobs went overseas,
they're losing their homes because without jobs they can no longer
afford to pay for them. The "government" will tell you that the "jobless
rate" has gone way, way down!! They are right, it has. What they are
not telling the American people is that once you "draw out" of your
unemployment payments, you are no longer counted as one of the
unemployed! You are nothing! You do not exist! And you still do not
have a job!
But Bushy baby keeps saying that we are getting hundreds of thousands
of new jobs! WHERE????????? How many people can McDonalds, Wendy's,
Burger King hire??
We are no longer a manufacturing country, we have become a country
of consumers. But it's a toss up as to how long we can even be consumers.
The products from our jobs that went overseas come back into this country
higher in price than when they were made here. You can bet your life that they
are not paying a decent wage to those workers over there, they don't have
to, thus more and bigger profits for them!
The drug, Lipitor, and several other drugs are being shipped into the USA even
as we speak! Where is it now manufactured? In England! They ship it here and to
Canada. Same drugs but 3 to 4 times higher in price here than when it is sold in
Canada. Please do not get me wrong. I have nothing against the workers over
seas making a living for their families but it irks me to know that it is done at
the expense of our workers and their families here.
It does worry me that our children and grand children are going to be in a lot
worse shape than we could have ever imagined.
Someone should remind the big companies and our elustrious government that
if we have no jobs, we have no money and with no money, we cannot buy!! It's
just that simple!!
Well, guess I've rattled on long enough! LOL!!! Nobody listens to old people anyway!
God bless,
Mama san
P.S. - JHogan, Canada is not over seas and they get their meds from the very
same people that we do. And as for being tested and approved by our FDA, forget
it!! If you think for one second that some of the FDA "people" are not being paid under
the table to OK certain drugs, then think again!! Drugs are being shoved on to
the market every day without ever being tested. After several hundred people have
died then they concern themselves with testing.
Just thought you all should know!


Mama - yeah, yeah - Bush is evil and the cause of all the problems - evrything was hunky dory under Clinton and anytime before Bush, BUT the ban on importation of foreign drugs were in place under the CLINTON admin, not BUSH.
 

Mama San

Administrator
jhogan said:
Mama - yeah, yeah - Bush is evil and the cause of all the problems - evrything was hunky dory under Clinton and anytime before Bush, BUT the ban on importation of foreign drugs were in place under the CLINTON admin, not BUSH.

No one said that Bush was evil but he is NOT concerned with the
welfare of the American people, either!! If he were, we would not have
bread lines 1 - 2 miles long. As for Clinton, he was no different
from the rest. They make great and wonderful promises just to
get into office but once there they suddenly develope memory
lose and those promises go out the window! But you had better
believe that they listen closely to the lobbiests. Kerry is no different.
God bless,
Mama san
 

Amos Stevens

New Member
When I visited Australia people banned from buying things that were made in China-trying to stop the importing from there..

People are trying to stay healthy & stay alive by buying their cheapier meds in Canada & Mexico,but there are stopped by the ones wanting them to buy in the US where it costs them more!

More & more businesses are closing shop here in the US to open in other countries..kind of makes US appear money hungry :)
 

jhogan

New Member
Mama san said:
No one said that Bush was evil but he is NOT concerned with the
welfare of the American people, either!! If he were, we would not have
bread lines 1 - 2 miles long. As for Clinton, he was no different
from the rest. They make great and wonderful promises just to
get into office but once there they suddenly develope memory
lose and those promises go out the window! But you had better
believe that they listen closely to the lobbiests. Kerry is no different.
God bless,
Mama san

An equal opportunity politician hater - I like that.

But, mama, 1-2 mile bread lines ? Please, if there were, Kerry would lead every ad with video of that line, criticizing Bush every step of the way, AND it would be on the news.

NOTE TO ALL YOU BUSH HATERS:
CAN YOU PLEASE KEEP YOUR EXAGERATIONS ON HOW BAD THE COUNTRY IS UNDER BUSH SOMEWHAT BELIEVEABLE AND REASONABLE, AT LEAST ?
IT'S NOT THE WORST ECONOMY, IT'S NOT THE BIGGEST DEFICIT, IT'S NOT THE MOST CORRUPT ADMINISTRATION IN HISTORY, IT'S NOT THE END OF THE WORLD ... sheesh !
 

Mama San

Administrator
There are none so blind as those who
will not see! There are none so deaf as
those who will not hear.
God bless,
Mama san
 

kickingbird

candle lighter
Ah c'mon ya'll, we all know Bush was elected by big business/oil/gas/timber/etc businesses. The presidency was bought, lock, stock and barrel (oil I might add lol). I abhor politics, but the Bush admin. has undone years of environmental work - all because of who elected him (see above). In my book, the environmental record alone is the biggest reason I'd personally like to see someone besides the Bush admin. in office; however, it already looks like the "village idiot" will be re-elected. Amazing.
Prescription drugs? Good grief! My cholesterol inched up and my doctor gave me samples of Crestor - of course with samples there are no "side-effect" inserts that come with the usual pharmacy meds so I looked it up on the 'net ... lots of class-action and individual lawsuits against it as well as side-effects that include liver and kidney destruction. Thanks but no thanks. FDA approved or not I will not take something with a track record like that. I'll take my chances with more exercise and diet restrictions (no more ice cream - whhhaaa!) and eating more fruits, veggies and oatmeal. FDA approval doesn't really amount to much when you consider the scientists who do the tests are paid by the fed gov which in turn is funded by the very pharm. companies that make the meds. Pretty sad when people's health and lives are mere pawns.
Anyone know of a PLANET we can move to LOL? :)
p.s. as far as the Bush Admin. = please read Sierra magazine, Audabon magazine, National Geographic, and check out organizations like the Wilderness Society and Nature Conservancy on how the Bush Admin. has done on environmental issues. Teddy Roosevelt would jump out of his grave! Along with his good friend John Muir (founder of the Sierra Club). If trees could talk, and Ents (Lord Of The Rings) really existed, the White House would certainly be surrounded by them demanding the environmental rape of our country STOP. Then again, the Bush backers don't really give a hoot about anything except the almighty dollar and their cozy little worlds. Sad. Very sad.
Peace
 

Mama San

Administrator
Very well said, Dixie!! All this didn't "start" with
the Bush administration but he/they continued it.
In some cases even made things worse. Promises
made, promises broken!!!
God bless,
Mama san
 

jhogan

New Member
Mama san said:
There are none so blind as those who
will not see! There are none so deaf as
those who will not hear.
God bless,
Mama san

Hickory, dickory dock, the mouse ran up the clock....
 

TDWoj

Administrator
Staff member
I get so tired of hearing politicians in the US railing against buying drugs from Canada. As if our drugs were somehow "unsafe" because what we have here is not FDA-approved - as if that means anything (look at the number of unsafe drugs the FDA has approved. I sometimes wonder if the FDA in the US is anything but a rubber stamp for the drug companies - no offense, to my US friends, but from north of the border, the FDA's certifications sometimes seem a little hinky).

See, here we have a pricing regulations on drugs here in Canada. Mind you, the cost is still exhorbitant, and it's not the cost of the drugs as much as it is the dispensing fee, which usually adds another $20 or so to the cost of actual prescription.

But it's the drug companies that are screaming the loudest because they do NOT have pricing regulations in the U.S. Essentially, a drug company can charge whatever they bloody well please in the US, and if you don't have a drug plan to cover the cost, well, that's too bad. That's why drugs are cheaper here in Canada - not because they're manufactured any more cheaply here, it's simply because the Canadian government still thinks health care is a right, not a privilege (although folks like Ralph Klein would like to see that change).

When the Mulroney government was in power, they extended the drug companies' stranglehold on the rights to their formulations from 10 to 20 years, effectively preventing cheaper, generic versions of drugs from coming onto the market sooner. That has not changed, at least to my knowledge. So it isn't all rosy here, either.

And that's why third-world countries are clamouring for the drug companies to lower their prices for AIDS treatment drugs in their countries, so that poorer people can get access to treatment. And that's why the drug companies won't lower their prices, because the number of people getting AIDS increases every year, making the treatment drugs a cash cow for the manufacturers.

We're having a problem right now in Canada getting new drugs for AIDS treatment here, because of the price-regulation system. Drugs released in the US are not available to Canadians suffering from AIDS because the drug companies don't want to limit their profits from the sales of these treatments. They won't release the drugs for use in Canada until Canada sets aside its price regulatory system, and the Canadian government won't do it - not because they don't want patients to receive treatment, but because they think the prices the companies are setting are too high.

The US view of health care, I think, is just about unique in the world - that it's a product, not a service, and therefore, like any product, requires profits to be made from it. And that universal health care programme like what we have here in Canada is something that needs to be wiped out... (this was one of the issues of NAFTA but we stood firm, and managed to keep our socialised health care system despite the US government's best efforts to eliminate it).

I wonder if anyone has figured out a healthy workforce is a more productive one....
 

Jules

Potters Clay
I am confused???

Mama san said:
There are none so blind as those who
will not see! There are none so deaf as
those who will not hear.
God bless,
Mama san
Mama San,
I am confused??? :confused: Who is not seeing or hearing here?
 

kickingbird

candle lighter
There is no time, therefore clocks are obsolete :)
To those who don't care for critisism of the Bush Admin. ... a friendly reminder that debate and even questioning of the government is a basic tennant of the freedom we have in the US. Need I quote the Constitution/Bill Of Rights, etc? The founding fathers knew that there are times when the gov might get out of hand and that the people should be able to bring it back in line with the majority consenses; however, it has proved sad but true that the majority consenses seem to have their heads buried in the sand, not willing to see nor hear because of blind "patriotism". Which is ironic, because being a patriot can mean questioning the government. Gee, didn't I hear something like that somewhere in a Steven Seagal movie?! LOL Of course, keep in mind just because someone exercises that doesn't make them an a-hole or idiot. There are millions of people who do not agree with the Bush Admin' policies and are hopping mad about it; however, as stated before - it is the oil/gas/timber/halliburton corporation conglomerates that have and will "elect" the prez. Sad. How power does corrupt.
Gee, now that we're all in a huff or docking our mouse we might need some of those cheap drugs ... lol
p.s. Please don't discuss this thread over dinner! "Religion and Politics" ...
FOOD FIGHT!
Peace!
 

Jules

Potters Clay
Cool! FOOD FIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

Since this country is split in the middle over President Bush and John Kerry this should make an even food fight. ;) That was not a wink. I got some food in my eye. arrg!! :)
 
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