Bombs blast London!!

Storm

Smile dammit!
Didn't know you were a fellow Brit BillyRay. This was a cowardly attack on ordinary commuters. Londoners espescially are very hardened to attacks but this was a bad one.They could have tried it with an army base but no,soft targets..

How do you stop someone leaving a bomb under a seat on a crowded train? You can only try to catch these scum and deal with them. If it's Al Quaeda as suspected,it's a direct retaliation for our support of the US,so it's good to see all the messages here from across the pond.
 

Lollipop

Banned
Storm said:
Didn't know you were a fellow Brit BillyRay. This was a cowardly attack on ordinary commuters. Londoners espescially are very hardened to attacks but this was a bad one.They could have tried it with an army base but no,soft targets..

How do you stop someone leaving a bomb under a seat on a crowded train? You can only try to catch these scum and deal with them. If it's Al Quaeda as suspected,it's a direct retaliation for our support of the US,so it's good to see all the messages here from across the pond.


I hate your innocent people are paying the price for standing with us!!
Our thoughts will always be with England for the loyalty they showed
America!! :apeace:
 

Serena

Administrator
I thought this was a great follow-up story. It says a lot about the brave spirit, compassion, and tenacity of the British people. Again, it's wonderful to see this side of people emerge in the face of such a tragedy.

Even if you don't read the whole article, please at least look over the sections I've highlighted. It truly is heartwarming. :)


Londoners Take Pride in 'Blitz Spirit'
Associated Press
July 7, 2005

LONDON - The priority in the morning was getting in touch with loved ones — it seemed everyone had a cell phone in hand. By evening, maps replaced phones as thousands of Londoners tried to navigate routes home made unfamiliar by police roadblocks and shuttered subway stations.

Amid the twisted metal and mangled bodies left by Thursday's devastating bomb attacks, Londoners took pride in their tradition of fortitude and quiet defiance. "As Brits, we'll carry on — it doesn't scare us at all," said 37-year-old tour guide Michael Cahill. "Look, loads of people are walking down the streets. It's Great Britain — not called 'Great' for nothing."

The worst attack on London since World War II brought out a strength and esprit de corps that recalled Britain under the blitz of German bombers.

As Wednesday's jubilation at winning the 2012 Olympics gave way to the terrible shock of Thursday's attacks, Prime Minister, Tony Blair made a televised appeal for unity and praised the "stoicism and resilience of the British people."

Both were in evidence across the city, as volunteers helped the walking wounded from blast sites, commuters loaned their phones so strangers could call home and thousands faced long queues for homeward-bound buses — or even longer walks — without complaint.

"People are getting on with it," said taxi driver Steve Green. "It's marvelous that they're showing their backbone."


Coordinated explosions ripped through three subway trains and a double-decker bus during the morning rush hour, killing at least 37 people and injuring about 700. Blair said the blasts were almost certainly timed to coincide with the G-8 summit of world leaders under way in Gleneagles, Scotland.

Londoners grew used to terrorism during years of Irish Republican Army violence. But Thursday's attacks were the deadliest in the city since World War II.

Many in the city demonstrated the resolute "Blitz spirit" that — at least in the popular imagination — prevailed through the worst days of German bombing.

"People are more friendly," said office worker Eric Procter as he began a long journey home. "Before, you'd walk this way and you wouldn't get any smiles. People are helping each other. They're stopping for directions and getting pointed in the right direction."

The streets were uncharacteristically calm around St. Paul's Cathedral, whose vast dome towering above clouds of black smoke became a symbol of British defiance of Nazi bombers.

"I can't believe how quiet and calm the atmosphere is in the streets. People aren't panicking, they're just quietly walking," said Inga Gordon, visiting from Oslo, Norway. "It doesn't seem like they are in shock. They are just going about their business."

Some Muslim Londoners expressed fear they would be targeted in revenge.

"Everyone is subdued and people are wondering what has happened," said restaurant manager Karim Mohammed. "People are asking how will it affect us, are we going to be treated in a nice way after this?"

However, there were no reports of revenge attacks Thursday. And while the majority of Britons opposed their nation's participation in the U.S.-led war in Iraq, there were no immediate calls to pull out the troops.

Computer technician Matt Carter, 25, said he was struck by how the attacks had united Londoners. "It's amazing how people have stuck together. I've seen total strangers hugging each other and people coming out into the street with free cups of tea," he said. "We can't let the terrorists defeat us. We've got to show them they will never win."

Mayor Ken Livingstone condemned the attacks as "an indiscriminate attempt at mass murder" aimed at "ordinary working-class Londoners." He said the bombers would never succeed. "I know that you personally do not fear giving up your own life in order to take others — that is why you are so dangerous," Livingstone said. "But I know you fear that you may fail in your long-term objective to destroy our free society. Whatever you do, however many you kill, you will fail."
 

AikiRooster

PainMaster.
Serena.

That follow up isn't bad, I saw it earlier on Fox.
A better follow up would be blowing up and or killing alot more terrorists.
 

Lollipop

Banned
Thanks Serena, I read the whole thing!! I worry so! These people are crazy you don't ever know when are where they will strike!
I am scared of them!!
 

AikiRooster

PainMaster.
Scared of terrorists?

Not I.
If your going to be afraid of something, be afraid of the Democrats that wonna take your guns away so you can't defend yourself against terrrorists as well as all the BS laws that tie Americans hands together not allowing them to kill a terrorist if we find them in this country. If we find a terrorist in this country and can prove it, if they resist arrest even by an American citizen it ought to be a justifiable homicide to kill that terrorist.
 

yudansha

TheGreatOne
that is just foolish

What about freedom? If you try and arrest me for a reason that seems invalid to me, I would certainly resist. And on what grounds is a civillian given the right to arrest, especially when charging someone with terrorism? If you meet a terrorist, you will probably not be able to do anything from that moment on. Moreover, for a martial arts enthusiast, you sure act like a trigger happy child. I guess you also approve of racial profiling and would rather see all of the minorities be rid of. At least that is how you make yourself sound to me.
 

AikiRooster

PainMaster.
Yudansha.

I prefer you not respond to anyhting in regards to me as I am trying really hard to avoid you. I don't like you. I am attempting to respect Amos's wish for us to knock it off. So it would behoove you to avoid me here.
In other words, GO AWAY little boy.
 

Lollipop

Banned
Mr.Rooster said:
Not I.
If your going to be afraid of something, be afraid of the Democrats that wonna take your guns away so you can't defend yourself against terrrorists as well as all the BS laws that tie Americans hands together not allowing them to kill a terrorist if we find them in this country. If we find a terrorist in this country and can prove it, if they resist arrest even by an American citizen it ought to be a justifiable homicide to kill that terrorist.


I know where the Democrats are and what they believe, I want be blind sided by them!
The terrorists sneak up on you, You can not compare the two!
 

yudansha

TheGreatOne
And why necessarily kill?

Did you see the kind of background the "to-be" leader of Iran has had? So you think we should kill all who you "think" you have proof of for a terrorist act? What if this "future" terrorist has a change of heart, for example. I'm making this up, so just go along. Or, for example gets convinced otherwise (against going through with the terrorist act) and is actually able to help in any way, shape, or form. What about rehabilitation? Why not try to "cure" terrorism as opposed to meeting it head on? Nobody is saying that it's easy, but neither is getting rid of the deadly rebels. Rebels always exist. If you don't hear about them, they are just hiding. The quiet deamon is the deadliest deamon. A fight against terrorism - the way it is being dealt with at the moment - is like fighting a never ending world civil war. Unless both parties can come to an agreement, nothing will be solved, and gunfire will be constantly heard. But how can you come to an agreement with a terrorist? You cannot. Hence, the battle continues. Death will be fought with death instead of a life for a life. Rehabilitation has seen the light in cases of prison inmates, so why deal violently with a criminal who hasn't committed anything? Why not try and make them see the light of day without using deadly force? And why treat terrorists differently from prisoners of war? To me it is the same thing, so if we are not to torture POWs, why torture those who haven't done anything to begin with?

And Rooster, I don't care for your opinion of me, so any insult coming from you is like a fly which anybody can easily brush off or deal with accordingly. I will respond when and how I wish. If you don't like it, that's tough. Be a man (grow into one first maybe) and settle down your unneeded nerves.
 

AikiRooster

PainMaster.
Lollipop.

I agree you can't compare the two and I was not doing so.
I was pointing out some of the issues the Democrats are trying to jam American citizens up with and in some cases succeeding. If we could cut out some of there attempts at making the American citizen more and more restricted maybe then the American citizen could take action if and when the time presented itself and it was justified and there was not enough time to call authorities. The main reason so many Americans do not get involved clear that they could have is because theres way too many laws against them. For example [not terrorist related] if I saw you or someone else having a hear attack and I tried to give CPR and accidently break a rib or something, the citizen trying to be a good semaritan can be sued by the same person the good semaritan is trying to save. The odds are stacked against the American citizen and it is often [more times then not] a better idea for the American citizen to not get involved.
 

AikiRooster

PainMaster.
Lollipop.

I agree you can't compare the two and I was not doing so.
I was pointing out some of the issues the Democrats are trying to jam American citizens up with and in some cases succeeding. If we could cut out some of there attempts at making the American citizen more and more restricted maybe then the American citizen could take action if and when the time presented itself and it was justified and there was not enough time to call authorities. The main reason so many Americans do not get involved clear that they could have is because theres way too many laws against them. For example [not terrorist related] if I saw you or someone else having a hear attack and I tried to give CPR and accidently break a rib or something, the citizen trying to be a good semaritan can be sued by the same person the good semaritan is trying to save. The odds are stacked against the American citizen and it is often [more times then not] a better idea for the American citizen to not get involved.
 

TDWoj

Administrator
Staff member
Mr.Rooster said:
I agree you can't compare the two and I was not doing so.
I was pointing out some of the issues the Democrats are trying to jam American citizens up with and in some cases succeeding. If we could cut out some of there attempts at making the American citizen more and more restricted maybe then the American citizen could take action if and when the time presented itself and it was justified and there was not enough time to call authorities. The main reason so many Americans do not get involved clear that they could have is because theres way too many laws against them. For example [not terrorist related] if I saw you or someone else having a hear attack and I tried to give CPR and accidently break a rib or something, the citizen trying to be a good semaritan can be sued by the same person the good semaritan is trying to save. The odds are stacked against the American citizen and it is often [more times then not] a better idea for the American citizen to not get involved.

That's because litigiousness has been built into the American culture; written laws arose from common law allowing the right to sue, and Americans, in general, have taken advantage of this. Laws have to be written to prevent someone bringing suit against, for example, a good samaritan, but that would be some abrogation of an American's civil rights, to have "his day in court".

What worries me more is this wholesale advocating for vigilantism. Who can say, this man or this woman is a terrorist? How do you know? Do they have a special mark on their foreheads, distinguishing them as a terrorist from the rest of the common herd?

Muslims in London right now are afraid the backlash is going to hit them. They are innocent, hardworking people, who are facing the likelihood of being beaten to death, their homes and businesses destroyed, their families endangered, all because of a handful of fanatics who have taken the name of Allah in vain, who have corrupted the message of the prophet for their own ends.

Who looks like a terrorist? Anyone with brown skin? Who are you to decide? Timothy McVeigh looked like your average American citizen - yet he blew up a building and killed over 160 people - including children. I'd wager he had a houseful of guns, too.

I worked with a man this past weekend, a recent immigrant from Jordan. He had brown skin and a distinct accent - and yet the Mexicans at the conference all thought he was one of theirs, and tried to speak Spanish to him. When asked what ethnicity he was, he answered simply, "we are all the same, under God."

Is he a terrorist? He had a wife and a baby daughter whom he loved very much and told us about. Because he had brown skin and came from Jordan, would you shoot him, because he might be a terrorist? I would say, from the arguments presented, that yes, you would. Not because he IS a terrorist - but because he MIGHT BE a terrorist. To quote: "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

Retaliation comes when somebody sticks their nose into somebody else's business and tells them how to live their lives, how they should build a society, who they should have as leaders. I find it ironic that Americans play this role on the international scene today, and yet in 1776, they objected to the British doing exactly the same thing to them, and took steps to chuck them out. In today's America, there are some Americans who evince such an air of surprise and indignation that their interference isn't gratefully received, when they perpetrate the very acts which they objected to at the birth of their own nation on others.

Vigilantism arises out of fear of the other, the unknown other. Terrorism also arises out of fear - fear of change, fear of the loss of one's culture, one's community, one's way of life. It also comes of ignorance, and in some cases, from too much knowledge. Both vigilantism and terrorism are also rooted in power - who has it, who doesn't, who wants it and who should have it.

Like the Hydra of Greek legend, kill one terrorist, and a dozen more spring up to take his or her place, each more vicious, fanatical and dedicated than the one who was killed. Killing terrorists serves no purpose except to promote more terrorism. Make them martyrs to their cause, and their cause will continue to grow. They are bullies and cowards. The only way to fight them is not to give them any reason to exist. But as long as there are people who believe that the only way to fight terrorism is through violence, terrorism will continue to grow like a festering wound, until it consumes both sides, and nothing at all will be left.

I commend the Brits in the manner in which they have taken this terrible blow. If the expectation was that people would run around frenzied and frightened and panicked, their reaction, their calmness, their going about their business, must be puzzling, at the very least. I only hope that this calmness continues, and that the Muslim community in London remains unmolested by hotheads and revenge-seekers.
 

kickingbird

candle lighter
The sad thing about terrorist attacks is that they only breed more hatred and anger all around. See what happens on this board - tempers flair, there are calls for killing, arguments, etc. The hatred spreads like wildfire around the globe. Peace-loving people deplore terrorists, terrorists deplore anyone who doesn't agree with them, and the battles go on and on and on. Do we fight fire with fire? Do we allow ourselves to become the anger and hatred the terrorists themselves imbibe? Or do we throw the coolness of compassion, love, tolerance, and peacefulness on those fires? Quick! someone grab the water bucket!
In Oneness and Peace
 

Jules

Potters Clay
Terrorists are determine to kill anyone they deem as unworthy of life...which is basically anyone who is not a muslim. My heart breaks to read about so many innocent people getting killed by cowards who leave bombs or strap bombs to themselves to kill others for some sick reason.

I know alot of innocent muslims will be treated unfairly because of the muslims who are out to kill.

Don't even think of taking my guns away. I will hide them if needed to protect my family. I know how to use them too.

I would rather read of how insurgents homes are getting attacked in rooting them out then read in the paper that OUR buildings and planes are attacked and destroyed with hundreds of innocent people in each incident.
 

Lollipop

Banned
kickingbird said:
The sad thing about terrorist attacks is that they only breed more hatred and anger all around. See what happens on this board - tempers flair, there are calls for killing, arguments, etc. The hatred spreads like wildfire around the globe. Peace-loving people deplore terrorists, terrorists deplore anyone who doesn't agree with them, and the battles go on and on and on. Do we fight fire with fire? Do we allow ourselves to become the anger and hatred the terrorists themselves imbibe? Or do we throw the coolness of compassion, love, tolerance, and peacefulness on those fires? Quick! someone grab the water bucket!
In Oneness and Peace


You are so right!! It started out just letting others know what was going on, my heart goes out to them!! If it had been a Muslim state my heart would still hurt!

I don't know how peace will ever come about, I don't think we need to worry about God's Wrath, I think Mankind will kill himself off!
 

ORANGATUANG

Wildfire
When will terrorists learn do they really think that by what they are doing is going to
weaken the countries that they terrorise wrong it will only strengthen them...
 

Lollipop

Banned
originally posted by TD
That's because litigiousness has been built into the American culture; written laws arose from common law allowing the right to sue, and Americans, in general, have taken advantage of this. Laws have to be written to prevent someone bringing suit against, for example, a good samaritan, but that would be some abrogation of an American's civil rights, to have "his day in court".



I don't want to argue, I am so tired of it!!! I would rather just feel some of the pain these people are feeling in hopes it would ease there burden some and to let me know we are still human and it could happen anywhere to anyone!!
But why do you feel the need to always attack a group of people!!
You post alot about how you get your feeling's hurt!
Well us American's do have a heart!! And we hurt the same as anyone else in this world!! I know I laugh and clown around alot!! But I do hurt!!
I love where I live and I know my country will go anywhere and help any other country in crisis while we have people starving here!!

I know alot feel we are at fault, because England did stand with us!!
But we would do the same for England and any other country!!
 

TDWoj

Administrator
Staff member
It wasn't an attack, Lollipop; I was merely answering Mr. Rooster's comment about lawsuits in the US. I can't remember offhand where I saw the statistics, but the US has the highest (or is among the highest for) rate of civil suits in the world. It's even been referred to as the "lawsuit industry".

There was absolutely nothing personal in my statement, it wasn't an attack - I was simply relaying a fact which I had come across in my reading.
 

hofmae

New Member
I think what most people don't get is that we are in a time that we have to accept that we cannot fight the terrorists with words or with diplomacy. The only way is to fight back, and if we not fight back, we lose.
 

TDWoj

Administrator
Staff member
And yet, how effective has fighting back been? Terrorism and those that embrace its tenets is on the increase. The more you fight terrorism with violence, the more the dead terrorist is perceived as a martyr to his holy cause, and more spring up to take his place. How is this seen as effective?
 
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