I miss the old steven seagal and my LONG opinion on current SS

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aikidoboynj

"Lookin fit Nelson"
Disciple said:
I think the problem is that movie producers wrongly believe that audiences want to see crappy Matrix-style unrealistic fight scenes. They don't realize that there's still a big market out there for classic Sensei style rough house fight scenes.

I agree and trust me alot of people also do.
 

Storm

Smile dammit!
Yeah it's all Jet Li type crap these days. I'd love to see Steven return to MFD form but i doubt it will happen.He seems to be churning them out to pay the rent.The viciousness and real intent of his early films may never be recaptured. Having said that,we have to be grateful he's still making movies.At least he didn't go down the Stallone "Stop or my mom will shoot" path(thankfully).I don't see why he can't at least attemp a hard,gritty thriller of the old school and see how it does.His weight comes up time and again here.I think deep down,he knows he needs to lose some or even these low budget movies will stop being offered.Does he have the will,or desire to do so? Or is he happy for a million dollar payday?Only Steven knows.Personally,i think he needs the slimfast. Sure,like lotus said it's inner beauty and all that but an action star can't expect to be taken seriously overblown.
 

TDWoj

Administrator
Staff member
Oh, they're still making Steven Seagal style action movies with reality based fighting in them, they're just don't want Steven Seagal to be in them.

I went to see The Last Samurai last night - the less said about that the better - and among the trailers being shown was one for Walking Tall (isn't that a Bo Svensen movie from way back? no, that was Walking Tall II - the original was Joe Don Baker, whatever happened to him?). Anyhow, it had all the hallmarks of a classic Steven Seagal movie, except - no Steven Seagal.

Who'd it have?

The Rock.

Well, The Rock is tall, dark, handsome, lean and mean, and can't act. But the two most important things about him is that he's YOUNG and he's NEW. Roles that our Steven made "his" are now going to this refugee from the WWF, simply because in the true Hollywood tradition where everything old needs to be recycled, the Hollywood accountants want a new and fresh face to stick on the poster to convince people it's never been done before. The Rock's got his WWF fan base to bring in the bucks, and that's what the studio execs are counting on.

What does Steven have these days? Except for a small and dedicated fan base (TD looks around the room and counts all the noses she sees), not much.

Issues of weight and age aside, Steven will likely never make a big studio movie in the US again because he's considered box office poison. Half Past Dead, his last theatrical release, pretty much bombed. His antics with the Mafia (the jury's still out about what he knew or didn't know and when didn't he not know it), his ego, his prima donna behaviour on movie sets, the complaints on how he treats women, all contribute to people in the American movie industry not wanting to work with him for any price.

Having descended into straight-to-video hell, the name "Steven Seagal" emblazoned across a movie poster at a theatre is likely to keep movie-goers away with wild enthusiasm rather than otherwise. He's got no cachet in the American movie industry. Heck, he's not even a B-list actor anymore. He isn't anything in Hollywood, except a laughable has-been.

Steven's only hope of making a come-back to theatrical releases is NOT to do a typical Steven Seagal movie. Not even to be the star of the movie, but a supporting actor in a role we might not usually see him in. You know he'll never play a villain - his ego won't allow it - so there's no point in wishing for that. But he has shown that he does well as a supporting actor - I know Ticker was awful, but Steven was surprisingly good in it, because he wasn't playing the same role he'd always played where he was the star.

Somewhere upstream someone said OFAK could have been saved by removing the monkey-fu scene - no. Nothing could have saved that movie, and it should sink into oblivion, never to be seen again. I was *embarrassed* for Steven, watching this film. But I've said my piece on OFAK elsewhere so I'm going to move on to what I want to say, which is, Steven needs a good story - a good script, something with real substance in it, not more of that cliche-ridden piece of crap that OFAK was. (Okay, TD, tell us what you REALLY think....).

There was always more than just kick-ass fight scenes in a film from Steven's heyday. There was back-story; there was character; there was a reason why his characters did what they did. And there was that tension coming up to the final confrontation with the bad guy - even though you knew the confrontation was inevitable, it was always fun getting there (well, not fun for the bad guys, but a lot of fun for us).

I disagree that "real" action movies are no longer being made, and that what everyone wants is Matrix-style wire work in a fight scene. What people want is a good story - and a good, solid, "real" fight scene that works within the story will be just as well received (if not more so) than a dazzling display of totally unrealistic wire-work. You might even have people come out of the theatre saying, "Gee, that was so cool - I wonder if I could learn how to do that?" - which you don't hear from anyone bedazzled by wire-work stunts.

Do I want to see Steven in a theatrical release film? You bet. Do I think that's ever going to happen again? No, I don't. Do I want to see Steven in the same kinds of movies as he used to make? I'm not sure - I'm now leaning towards the idea that maybe he shouldn't make those kinds of films any more, because he has changed a lot since those days. I'd like to see him in something a little darker, a little more cerebral, with fight scenes more incidental than as a focus of the character.

I'm thinking what he could do - what he must do - is re-invent himself, if he cares to keep working, and cares to get back on the big screen. But I don't think that's something he's likely to do - and all we're going to get until he disappears to take up his duties as a tulku is straight-to-video rubbish that we as his loyal fans will continue to eat up, starved as we are for anything with Steven Seagal in it.

-TD, just as hungry as everyone else
 

Lotussan

I Belong To Steven
Well Storm,

I understand that most of those so called fans are of a different sort, they
are very demanding...
Maybe he doesn't have the desire to lose weight, maybe he wants to be loved and admired just as he is...
Maybe some the "fans" would like him to be slimmer, but it's just their own ego telling them they want him to be a certain way...
Fact is, he is how he is, and to me he's wonderful...
I am one that does like him just as he is, and that will never change...
I can tell you that I definately understand those desires to be loved for your merits and not your looks...
Maybe he doesn't even worry about it, and I think that's great...
I wish I could have that attitude...
Personally, I am scared to death that he would never like me because I am in dire need of losing a lot weight...
I also know that for most men visual (physical) stimulus is extremely crucial...
But he would never need to lose weight for me to love him, because it's obvious that I already do...
And I honestly like him heavier, as I think it gives him that real tough, edgy, menacing look...
Some of you might think that is weird, but it's the truth...
I think a big, burly man is sexy and exciting, to me men should be big...;)
I don't think he is neccesarily all that menacing in real life, but who is to know really?
I think he's very exciting...
I personally think he is senstive and compassionate, and that these people that judge him on his looks are being very hurtful and shallow...
And I admit the way he looks is a strong part of my attraction too, but it is most definately not all of it...
I know I shouldn't let my insecurities about my body dictate what I do either, but it's hard...
Not having the emotional support is hard too, but I can't tell you how many nice friends I have made here...
I think we all love Steven just as he is, but we are his truest fans...
Maybe he just wants to be loved for who he is...
And who a person is, cannot be determind soley by ones looks...
However, the looks changing can really affect one emotionally.
Or is it the other way around?
I think it can be both, a viscious cycle...
Because people still do initially judge you based upon what's on the outside, and eventually you tire of it and maybe you even sabotage your looks to see what other reaction you might get...
I do know this...
I think this is exactly what I did...
Maybe that sounds crazy to you, I don't know...
It's kind of the opposite of anorexia, I guess...
But since realizing this, I am trying really hard now to improve myself so that I can feel better about me...
But that is still very wrong, because I should naturally feel good about myself, and the weight shouldn't matter...
I don't judge others by it so why should I judge myself by it?
Sigh, I can't answer that...
And I am sorry if I am ranting, but this is a very sesitive issue for me...
Only Steven can make that choice to lose if the weight is a problem for him...
I deeply hope that it isn't...
I wouldn't ever care how big he was...
Sometimes there are even physical problems that make it difficult to lose as well...
Hopefully he is totally healthy and fine that way, though...
I do understand how hard it is for me to be heavy...
I wouldn't wish it on anyone...
I support him no matter what, and I see his talents and his worthiness...
He's an amazing man in my eyes, and yes, he the most attractive man just as he is...
In fact I am blinded to anyone else...

Steven, stay big baby! ;)

Or lose it all, it's all your choice!
But I will always love, support and admire you, no matter what!

You are the greatest! :)
 

Disciple

come get some
a few points while I have time:

1. The Rock's movie has a lot of "matrixy" shots in it. Walking Tall is not what I'd call realistic action at all (by realistic I mean one take, no wires or special effects or fancy camera angles or MTV editing, just pure physicality like Sensei's fights in Above the Law). And yes, Walking Tall does remind a lot of a Seagal movie, mostly because Marked for Death was itself kind of a remake of the original Walking Tall.

2. Sensei is still very much popular as a video-level actor. His tape and DVD sales are doing very well, just like those of Van Damme. It's not $20 million a picture, but it's still a legitimate Hollywood career. Seagal's still got a hardcore fan base, even though many of them are not as vocal as all of us here (a few people posting on a message board doesn't constitute his whole fanbase, not by a long shot)

3. Considering that he no longer has to worry about his image as an A list action star to maintain, I think he would be willing to take a villain role if the right director came along, and pitched it to him the right way, i.e. really sold the role to Seagal as a "comeback" thing. If anyone has seen Kill Bill (part 2 of which will come in a few months time) Quentin Tarantino uses David Carradine REALLY effectively. And Carradine doesn't even have a fraction of the presence or menace or true fighting ability that Seagal has. So just imagine how great he'd be as a villain.
 

mikek7316

Engorged Member
Your opinion is very similar to the majority of people who watch movies. Mr. Seagal probably knows this.

Yes, he would make more money and be more respected by mainstream media and the public if he lost weight, changed his hairstyle, and starred in more high budget movies under a Hollywood studio like WB or Fox. But I don't think he really cares about that.

I think at this point in his life he is doing what he wants, rather than what the general public wants. Fortunately for him, he still has a strong following of fans who enjoy his latest direct-to-video releases (with the exception of the Foreigner, my god that was awful).

I don't think he means to alienate any fans or former fans with his latest work. I think he just enjoys doing this more than the type of films he used to do. He gets to have a lot of creative control over his pictures now, something over which he clashed with studio execs at WB. And while it may not be important to you, it is important to Seagal to be able to imncorporate Buddhist elements into his films, and he can do that now. And if he is comfortable with his weight, then I see no problem with it (I think he carries it quite well actually).
 
Hahahaaha I can't believe you all are taking the time to type out this long winded posts.
Ya know, what ever happened to going outside, going for walks? all that nature stuff, even if the weather is sh1te.
Get a life!
Uh wait *realizes he's on here pointing this out*
uhm yea *runs away*
:rolleyes:
 

aikidoboynj

"Lookin fit Nelson"
Disciple said:
a few points while I have time:

1. The Rock's movie has a lot of "matrixy" shots in it. Walking Tall is not what I'd call realistic action at all (by realistic I mean one take, no wires or special effects or fancy camera angles or MTV editing, just pure physicality like Sensei's fights in Above the Law). And yes, Walking Tall does remind a lot of a Seagal movie, mostly because Marked for Death was itself kind of a remake of the original Walking Tall.

2. Sensei is still very much popular as a video-level actor. His tape and DVD sales are doing very well, just like those of Van Damme. It's not $20 million a picture, but it's still a legitimate Hollywood career. Seagal's still got a hardcore fan base, even though many of them are not as vocal as all of us here (a few people posting on a message board doesn't constitute his whole fanbase, not by a long shot)

3. Considering that he no longer has to worry about his image as an A list action star to maintain, I think he would be willing to take a villain role if the right director came along, and pitched it to him the right way, i.e. really sold the role to Seagal as a "comeback" thing. If anyone has seen Kill Bill (part 2 of which will come in a few months time) Quentin Tarantino uses David Carradine REALLY effectively. And Carradine doesn't even have a fraction of the presence or menace or true fighting ability that Seagal has. So just imagine how great he'd be as a villain.

I just think the Rock doesn't have that same edge, I think all they really wanted to do was try and make another Arnold(a new arnold=big bucks) this time around he'd be hip with the kids(wwf) an african/hawaian/american arnold if you will...But all i really think he is, is a over grown football player with his only claim being a champion of a fake sport. ( I have been a prowrestling fan but It turns me off now)
 

Storm

Smile dammit!
All that pro wrestling is staged nonsense. It really makes me cringe,like an Oz soap opera!If you could turn all the steroids into loafs it'd eliminate world hunger!

Lotus,don't do yourself down about your weight. I've been out with skinny girls and big ones and they were all great. It's hard for a big girl to see a twig getting asked for a dance but they usually have the biggest hearts and personalities.

Fox,it doesn't mean you don't have a life coming here. I ain't got nothing better to do!Heh.Go for that walk.
 
Storm said:
All that pro wrestling is staged nonsense. It really makes me cringe,like an Oz soap opera!If you could turn all the steroids into loafs it'd eliminate world hunger!

Lotus,don't do yourself down about your weight. I've been out with skinny girls and big ones and they were all great. It's hard for a big girl to see a twig getting asked for a dance but they usually have the biggest hearts and personalities.

Fox,it doesn't mean you don't have a life coming here. I ain't got nothing better to do!Heh.Go for that walk.


Oz? as in Bend ove we're gonna spoon oz? *cringes*

lol hey I don't have anything better to do I guess...lol and I'm sick at the moment so no walking in this winter weather *cough*
 

Storm

Smile dammit!
I hope you recover quickly Junior.I'm supposed to be vulnerable to throat and chest infections but so far those around me are dropping like flies,heh.My turn will come,no doubt. Good job i insisted on a flu jab
(Storm,looking for the lemsip)
monkey_404.jpg

Ps.I love the pic of this chimp in contemplation.You'd get a shock if you asked him what's up and he says"eliminating poverty and quantum physics,old chap".
 
Storm, yep I'm usually the last to get it too, and only get really really sick once a year, but as of late, insomnia and early mornings wear down my oxe like immune system, but I gave the fever a licken the night it came to me...lol
vitamin C and drugs!!!!
lol
ya know, most chimps do speak with a british accent ;)
 

aikidoboynj

"Lookin fit Nelson"
TDWoj said:
Oh, they're still making Steven Seagal style action movies with reality based fighting in them, they're just don't want Steven Seagal to be in them.

I went to see The Last Samurai last night - the less said about that the better - and among the trailers being shown was one for Walking Tall (isn't that a Bo Svensen movie from way back? no, that was Walking Tall II - the original was Joe Don Baker, whatever happened to him?). Anyhow, it had all the hallmarks of a classic Steven Seagal movie, except - no Steven Seagal.

Who'd it have?

The Rock.

Well, The Rock is tall, dark, handsome, lean and mean, and can't act. But the two most important things about him is that he's YOUNG and he's NEW. Roles that our Steven made "his" are now going to this refugee from the WWF, simply because in the true Hollywood tradition where everything old needs to be recycled, the Hollywood accountants want a new and fresh face to stick on the poster to convince people it's never been done before. The Rock's got his WWF fan base to bring in the bucks, and that's what the studio execs are counting on.

What does Steven have these days? Except for a small and dedicated fan base (TD looks around the room and counts all the noses she sees), not much.

Issues of weight and age aside, Steven will likely never make a big studio movie in the US again because he's considered box office poison. Half Past Dead, his last theatrical release, pretty much bombed. His antics with the Mafia (the jury's still out about what he knew or didn't know and when didn't he not know it), his ego, his prima donna behaviour on movie sets, the complaints on how he treats women, all contribute to people in the American movie industry not wanting to work with him for any price.

Having descended into straight-to-video hell, the name "Steven Seagal" emblazoned across a movie poster at a theatre is likely to keep movie-goers away with wild enthusiasm rather than otherwise. He's got no cachet in the American movie industry. Heck, he's not even a B-list actor anymore. He isn't anything in Hollywood, except a laughable has-been.

Steven's only hope of making a come-back to theatrical releases is NOT to do a typical Steven Seagal movie. Not even to be the star of the movie, but a supporting actor in a role we might not usually see him in. You know he'll never play a villain - his ego won't allow it - so there's no point in wishing for that. But he has shown that he does well as a supporting actor - I know Ticker was awful, but Steven was surprisingly good in it, because he wasn't playing the same role he'd always played where he was the star.

Somewhere upstream someone said OFAK could have been saved by removing the monkey-fu scene - no. Nothing could have saved that movie, and it should sink into oblivion, never to be seen again. I was *embarrassed* for Steven, watching this film. But I've said my piece on OFAK elsewhere so I'm going to move on to what I want to say, which is, Steven needs a good story - a good script, something with real substance in it, not more of that cliche-ridden piece of crap that OFAK was. (Okay, TD, tell us what you REALLY think....).

There was always more than just kick-ass fight scenes in a film from Steven's heyday. There was back-story; there was character; there was a reason why his characters did what they did. And there was that tension coming up to the final confrontation with the bad guy - even though you knew the confrontation was inevitable, it was always fun getting there (well, not fun for the bad guys, but a lot of fun for us).

I disagree that "real" action movies are no longer being made, and that what everyone wants is Matrix-style wire work in a fight scene. What people want is a good story - and a good, solid, "real" fight scene that works within the story will be just as well received (if not more so) than a dazzling display of totally unrealistic wire-work. You might even have people come out of the theatre saying, "Gee, that was so cool - I wonder if I could learn how to do that?" - which you don't hear from anyone bedazzled by wire-work stunts.

Do I want to see Steven in a theatrical release film? You bet. Do I think that's ever going to happen again? No, I don't. Do I want to see Steven in the same kinds of movies as he used to make? I'm not sure - I'm now leaning towards the idea that maybe he shouldn't make those kinds of films any more, because he has changed a lot since those days. I'd like to see him in something a little darker, a little more cerebral, with fight scenes more incidental than as a focus of the character.

I'm thinking what he could do - what he must do - is re-invent himself, if he cares to keep working, and cares to get back on the big screen. But I don't think that's something he's likely to do - and all we're going to get until he disappears to take up his duties as a tulku is straight-to-video rubbish that we as his loyal fans will continue to eat up, starved as we are for anything with Steven Seagal in it.

-TD, just as hungry as everyone else


Definitely all good points, but maybe Im just hardheaded but I really do think without a shadow of a doubt, that say Steven did revert to his "old John Hatcher styled self" if you will, & have a movie similiar to his earlier efforts say a studio gave him a chance and released it, I think that the old style Seagal is still bankable, he's an action star and all hes really required to do is kick ass, look good while kickin ass, and play someone believeable thats caught in the wrong situation...The classic good vs evil..

(BTW: I believe all of, well atleast his earlier efforts were quite believeable, I definitely bought him as being the "ex cia/fbi/dea/seal or plain and simple street-smart cop, and im bettin you guys did too as did the masses)

As peaceful as he has gotten now everyone on here knows that he can still kick some f-n ass LoL...And I know you guys are saying "yeah but to bad that would never happen"...And I do agree that it probably woundn't but I do think that if by some chance of god, that it were to happen with the right advertising, I'd bet the movie would be a success (it wouldn't be an emmy award winner now lol but f--- the academy haha)...H--- even if it weren`t to be in the theatres c`mon guys woudn`t it be a f'n blast, even watching it on the small screens?
Ill still check out all the SS DTV's anyway but it would be nice to go old school one last time, anyways talk to you guys later.
 
Shortened version of this thread:

Person 1: My opinion of seagal is blah blah because he should be what I say he is blah blah blah.

Person2: Certainly you have some good points but my opinion is blah blah blah blah....

Repeat 20 x....


and the next few will probably be as follows:

Person1: Well you're a big poo poo head

person2: You're the biger poo poo head!
 

aikidoboynj

"Lookin fit Nelson"
Sleeping Fox said:
Shortened version of this thread:

Person 1: My opinion of seagal is blah blah because he should be what I say he is blah blah blah.

Person2: Certainly you have some good points but my opinion is blah blah blah blah....

Repeat 20 x....


and the next few will probably be as follows:

Person1: Well you're a big poo poo head

person2: You're the biger poo poo head!


Ya know...Thats real funny...Why don't you just stay off this thread if it really bothers/bores you so much?
I'm sorry that we all have a different say in things, that some of us actually don't agree on every single thing that Seagal does, Jesus...
 

Disciple

come get some
aikidoboynj said:
Definitely all good points, but maybe Im just hardheaded but I really do think without a shadow of a doubt, that say Steven did revert to his "old John Hatcher styled self" if you will, & have a movie similiar to his earlier efforts say a studio gave him a chance and released it, I think that the old style Seagal is still bankable, he's an action star and all hes really required to do is kick ass, look good while kickin ass, and play someone believeable thats caught in the wrong situation...The classic good vs evil..

(BTW: I believe all of, well atleast his earlier efforts were quite believeable, I definitely bought him as being the "ex cia/fbi/dea/seal or plain and simple street-smart cop, and im bettin you guys did too as did the masses)

As peaceful as he has gotten now everyone on here knows that he can still kick some f-n ass LoL...And I know you guys are saying "yeah but to bad that would never happen"...And I do agree that it probably woundn't but I do think that if by some chance of god, that it were to happen with the right advertising, I'd bet the movie would be a success (it wouldn't be an emmy award winner now lol but f--- the academy haha)...H--- even if it weren`t to be in the theatres c`mon guys woudn`t it be a f'n blast, even watching it on the small screens?

I hear ya man, it would definitely be a blast. But we've got to be realistic here, I don't think we're ever gonna see old school Sensei again... much as it pains me to admit.
 

Lotussan

I Belong To Steven
Storm thank-you, you are so sweet...:) How are you feeling these days? I hope all is well with you...It's true weight does not make the man, or the woman...

Maybe even Steven has a few thoughts on this subject, you never know...
Maybe he is sick of everyone making a to do of his appearance...
True, I can't deny that I am attracted physically to him either...
I would be outright lying if I said I wasn't seriously lusting after the man...:eek:
But I hope he would be flattered and not mind at all...He's got so much more, oh so much more, it honestly overwhelms me and thrills me to no end...
I adore him for so many reasons...:)

Steven is amazing he always has been, he's always been a different sort, and I believe his charisma is what has brought him to fame...I don't believe this will ever change, at least not for me, or for anyone that has been affected by this man...He always will be phenomenal, his weight might change and that's fine, but what's really so awesome comes from his many talents his determination, and his natural and obvious wisdom...He's a wonderful and beautiful man, and I like his films just as much as I ever have, they might be different, but they are still as entertaining as ever in my opinion...

I happened to really like the Foreigner...I thought his acting was very nice in it...I don't think I am the only one who did...He had quite an edge in that one, which I thought he was veeeeerrrry charming...He gives me a thrill I can't express...He was even a little ruthless at times which is very reminicent of his past films...But then that's Steven (on screen, I mean) and it's this very thing, this brand of awesome power he makes us feel it all, and it's this special very vicarious thrill he puts into all of us that is in my opinion, what has made him so popular, at least this is what I think we so admire...His prowess, his talent, his strength...His very essence...:)

Sensei I adore you soooooooooooooooo much, you are absolutely fabulous, my darling! :)
 
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