The Greatest Fighter Alive Today!

[Littledragon]

You’re right… …the casualties would be far too great!

First time I’ve witnessed, keep up the good work!

I apologize by my comment, I think you are a very knowledge person about martial arts and I would love to keep discussing them about you in a non argueing matter so I apologize.

Just to let you know that I just turned 16 and I am the youngest member on the site so enlighten me with your info as I will do the same.

Peace
Tarek


We got on to the wrong start so lets start over

 

[tenshinaikidoka]

I admit that the Gracies have great ground fightint skills, but my main point is this, and perhaps I was not clear when I stated it originally: A true martial artist is not one who has to compete or fight to know that they are capable of defending themselves. I know that I am capable of defending myself and have dones so successfully, however I do not go out and challenge other people to duels or contests so that I can state "Tenshin Aikido Is Supreme In The Ring". My personal opinion is taht the Gracies and others in BJJ have put far to much importance on the ground and not enough on the other parts of fighting.

 

[Littledragon]

I admit that the Gracies have great ground fightint skills, but my main point is this, and perhaps I was not clear when I stated it originally: A true martial artist is not one who has to compete or fight to know that they are capable of defending themselves. I know that I am capable of defending myself and have dones so successfully, however I do not go out and challenge other people to duels or contests so that I can state "Tenshin Aikido Is Supreme In The Ring". My personal opinion is taht the Gracies and others in BJJ have put far to much importance on the ground and not enough on the other parts of fighting.

You see the Gracie's style is all on the ground. In my opinion inorder to be a great martial artist you need to know everything, grappling, striking, joint minipulations etc... The only thing is in the first UFC's the Gracie proved that grappling was superior and ever since then I have began grappling and Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. Like I said 95% of street fights end up on the ground and IF you are on the ground you must know some submission fighting.

 

[Littledragon]

I admit that the Gracies have great ground fightint skills, but my main point is this, and perhaps I was not clear when I stated it originally: A true martial artist is not one who has to compete or fight to know that they are capable of defending themselves. I know that I am capable of defending myself and have dones so successfully, however I do not go out and challenge other people to duels or contests so that I can state "Tenshin Aikido Is Supreme In The Ring". My personal opinion is taht the Gracies and others in BJJ have put far to much importance on the ground and not enough on the other parts of fighting.

A true martial artist is not one who has to compete or fight to know that they are capable of defending themselves.


The problem with that is some martial artists are so fixed in believeing that there style is the "best" and that they can defend themeselve from anybody, but then when they realize the get tackled on the ground it is a totall culture shock to them. Every fighter in the early UFC thought what you thought, but statistics show that 95% of fights end up on the ground and their Karate or any other style they did simply did not work on the ground.

 

[tenshinaikidoka]

And when I say that BJJ is a sport, that is because every school I have seen and visited, they are emphasizing competition and not self defense. I am in no way degrading the Gracies, they have a lot of followers and a lot of support, but I do not think that they are the "best" there are. I do not think anyone is "the best". I think everyone has their own "way" or path, and that is what they are best at. I have taken Karate, Tae Kwon Do, Judo, Jeet Kune Do concepts, Aikijujutsu and finally Aikido. My personal likes have been Aikijujutsu/Aikido. It is what works for me, and for the individual, that is what is important. Every martial art has it's place as does every human being. Domo Arigato!!!!

 

[Littledragon]

And when I say that BJJ is a sport, that is because every school I have seen and visited, they are emphasizing competition and not self defense. I am in no way degrading the Gracies, they have a lot of followers and a lot of support, but I do not think that they are the "best" there are. I do not think anyone is "the best". I think everyone has their own "way" or path, and that is what they are best at. I have taken Karate, Tae Kwon Do, Judo, Jeet Kune Do concepts, Aikijujutsu and finally Aikido. My personal likes have been Aikijujutsu/Aikido. It is what works for me, and for the individual, that is what is important. Every martial art has it's place as does every human being. Domo Arigato!!!!

One of the quotes I really love is from Ed Parker which I think we can both agree on,: "I keep constantly hearing that this style is better than that style. It is not the style it is the man. The style gives you the physical boundaries but you are the one who makes it work."



The schools who emphasize BJJ for just sport only are wrong, I am talking about the Gracies and the Machado brothers who are the masters of BJJ and emphasize both but mainly for self-defense and street fighting situations.

 

[tenshinaikidoka]

Ok, it is not true that 95% of all fights end up on the ground. That is not true at all, and I would like to know where you are getting your facts from. If you are getting them from an instructor, I would like to give him actual statistics, because I KNOW for a fact, that is not true. Perhaps 95% of all one on one fights might go to the ground, but even then, I would have to look at the stats. Alot of street fights involve multiple attackers (when a friends buddy gets hurt, the pals jump in type of thing). If you go to the ground at that point, have a good hospital stay, cause you may do damage to someone on the ground, but his/her friends will enjoy kicking the crap out of you when your down. But, like I said, I only have 18 years in martial arts , so I am still learning, and will continue to do so!!!!!! Life is a journey, keep studying and follow your path. Ultimately we are all on the same team.

 

[tenshinaikidoka]

I am refering to the Machado and Gracie schools. One school in Spokane Washington I visited and one in Seattle. Spokane was a Machado school, and Seattle was Gracie (although, Machado learned from Gracie). Both schools were really emphasizing competition. Anyway, As long as YOU are happy with what you learn, that is what is important. Like I said before, no one style outdoes the other, individual preference is what matters.

 

[Littledragon]

Ok, it is not true that 95% of all fights end up on the ground. That is not true at all, and I would like to know where you are getting your facts from. If you are getting them from an instructor, I would like to give him actual statistics, because I KNOW for a fact, that is not true. Perhaps 95% of all one on one fights might go to the ground, but even then, I would have to look at the stats. Alot of street fights involve multiple attackers (when a friends buddy gets hurt, the pals jump in type of thing). If you go to the ground at that point, have a good hospital stay, cause you may do damage to someone on the ground, but his/her friends will enjoy kicking the crap out of you when your down. But, like I said, I only have 18 years in martial arts , so I am still learning, and will continue to do so!!!!!! Life is a journey, keep studying and follow your path. Ultimately we are all on the same team.

I got that from an article in Black Belt magazine as well as the documentary vhs called Modern Warriors where you have many martial art masters talking about self-defense such as Richard Notron, Benny Urquidez, Rorian Gracie etc.. all saying the same thing.

 

[tenshinaikidoka]

And I do agree with that saying 100%!!!!!! And I must admit little, you are very persistant in getting your point across, I respect that alot, and good for you!

 

[Littledragon]

And I do agree with that saying 100%!!!!!! And I must admit little, you are very persistant in getting your point across, I respect that alot, and good for you!

Thanks.

 

[Bushido]

LittleDragon:

“All their street fights in Brazil proved that Gracie Jiu- Jitsu is not just a sport. I advise you to read The Gracie Way or buy the video tape Gracie's In Action where it shows some of the most toughest street fights. People make it sound like what they do in the ring is what they will do in the street which is false. In a street fight the winner is of course not by someone tapping out but when someone is completley beaten up, if a MARTIAL ARTIST gets into that situation what I learned in Aikido class is if I can use a technique that effectivley defends myself without seriously hurting the attacker than I have achieved my goal. My sensei said what if you hurt them real bad and the next time they track you down with 5 guys with bats. So I say to my sensei what shall I do? He says attack, he grabs my rest and in a circular motion puts me down, also he uses an irimi on me.”

Here’s my thoughts: Street fights are not cut and dry. Do you or do you not know who you are getting in a fight with? Yes? Ok, so after you educate him as to why attacking you is a bad idea he ought to know better than to come back at you with buds and bats. If he does come back with 8 friends armed to the teeth with Babe Ruth specials than you hospitalizes his A*S, continue from friend to friend till there are not anymore friends left. After that you visit them all in the hospital and remember! Bring flowers and get well soon cards, and cookies, hospital food sucks. (they’ll probably all worship the ground you walk on and want to be your friend)

If you don’t know the guy, don’t worry about it. Beat his A*S SILLLY, and if he’s too stupid to just be grateful to be alive and he wants to jump you again with friend, he’ll probable not get the chance as he doesn’t know you or anything about you. How is he going to find you? If he does happen a cross your path again it’s not likely he’ll be prepared.

On these kind of topics Bruce Lee’s philosophy and mine are very similar.

LittleDragon:

“I apologize by my comment, I think you are a very knowledge person about martial arts and I would love to keep discussing them about you in a non argueing matter so I apologize.

Just to let you know that I just turned 16 and I am the youngest member on the site so enlighten me with your info as I will do the same.”

Don’t worry about it, it’s all good. Just remember you are a Master when you decide you are. O’Sensei himself said he wasn’t a master but a student of Aikido. One you decide you know everything about a topic, you stop looking for new things and you stay where you’re at, so in that since you have mastered that thing because you’ve hit the top of where you’re ever going to be.

Be thankful you’re that young, you have a chance to be as good or better than this Rickson you admire so.

LittleDragon:

“Like I said 95% of street fights end up on the ground and IF you are on the ground you must know some submission fighting.”

Well this is something that badly needs to get cleared up. What the stats are “95% of ALL fights end up on the ground”, remember ALL fights. Most martial arts aren’t in fights very often for a number of reasons, and there are a lot more normal people without ANY training out there and they get in to a lot more fights on the street each then martial artist do. That number does not refer to trained fighters. Second, getting me or anyone else with a strong center on the ground is quite the feet. Third, for those Aikidoka out there, if you end up having to deal with a BJJ guy and you can’t stop the shoot, drop to a suwariwasa position once you do your center strength increases 10 fold! From there you can regain your feet pretty easily, if you have good technique and you know what you are doing.

My thoughts on BJJ: I think BJJ is a sport. In fact a more proper term would be martial sport, just like Judo, or modern Kendo. I think it is a good complement to any given art you maybe studying but it isn’t an art in its own right. For one it is not complete, two it does not deal with conflict in a realistic way, and three there is WAY too much infuses on competition. I think you are getting confused, when we say sport, because we don’t mean like football, or even wrestling. It is a combat sport, and in that anyone who studies it is of cores going to learn things that are going to have martial application to it, but he won’t have the mind for a REAL fight, and won’t be well rounded enough for a REAL fight. Even though he may survive a street encounter, if he has to deal with the 8 guys and bats, I just hope everyone he cares about knows he loves them.

 

[yudansha]

Nice, very nice, but something else on these stats...

It was mentioned that the stats were taken from a magazine where a grappling master was quoted producing such stats. Don't you think that such sayings are one of the ways to advertise their 'martial sport' and to basically start brain-washing those who think that they really need to learn some form of defence in order to stay alive or not get hurt. Another thing, 95% of 'ALL' fights? You've gotta be kidding right? Who was doing these statistics ... are there people standing with calculators at every corner in Brooklyn or at night in dowtown Detroit or Miami? Let me tell you something, in places like that, the guy who's going down is going down with a knife inside of him already there before he lands to the ground. That's the reality of gangs that exist and will never ceise to exist.

Bushido: "continue from friend to friend till there are not anymore friends left. After that you visit them all in the hospital and remember! Bring flowers and get well soon cards, and cookies, hospital food sucks"

I literally laughed out loud reading that! Do you ever perform at Yak Yak's?

 

[Bushido]

It was mentioned that the stats were taken from a magazine where a grappling master was quoted producing such stats. Don't you think that such sayings are one of the ways to advertise their 'martial sport' and to basically start brain-washing those who think that they really need to learn some form of defence in order to stay alive or not get hurt. Another thing, 95% of 'ALL' fights? You've gotta be kidding right? Who was doing these statistics ... are there people standing with calculators at every corner in Brooklyn or at night in dowtown Detroit or Miami? Let me tell you something, in places like that, the guy who's going down is going down with a knife inside of him already there before he lands to the ground. That's the reality of gangs that exist and will never ceise to exist.

Exactly! And if they are true I must be part of that 5%, because I have NEVER been taken to the ground! Maybe the grappling master means that 95% of the fights he’s been in have ended up on the ground. If that’s the case I am most interested in that 5% that didn’t!

 

[yudansha]

You got me interested too.

In that, I'm interested too.

 

[Littledragon]

Exactly! And if they are true I must be part of that 5%, because I have NEVER been taken to the ground! Maybe the grappling master means that 95% of the fights he’s been in have ended up on the ground. If that’s the case I am most interested in that 5% that didn’t!

Well from watching a hard core street fight dvd I bought at Tower Records every signle fight on that dvd were taken to the ground.

Anyways I am a striker so I would not let anybody take me to the ground but IF god forbid I am I have Jiu-Jitsu to back me up.

 

[tenshinaikidoka]

Who is in a hard core street fight?

 

[Littledragon]

Who is in a hard core street fight?

Street fighters, just brawlers no martial artists.

 

[Kido Ryu]

Hello everyone, I hope all are well today.

It’s amazing how little difference there is between debating and arguing.
I have been reading this thread on and off for some time and find it to be somewhat comical but there have been some valid points made from all sides. Nonetheless I feel compelled to respond so please allow me to add my two cents worth.

I agree with the point of view that the rules involved in any fighting competition make it unlike real combat.

Ground fighting is the last thing I would want to do in if involved in a street fight for a couple of reasons.

1. In most street fights one would be defending oneself from multiple attackers and the ground is the last place one would choose to be.

2. Rolling around on the concrete is not my idea of a good time.

However it’s a good idea to learn some ground fighting incase one finds oneself in that unfortunate position.

I would like to address the mastery of a martial art and the higher level of techniques.
In my opinion what Mr. Lee was trying to convey in his fighting philosophy is the higher techniques of fighting arts. (The absence of exact technique and the spontaneous reaction to a given situation.)

What I have found in my years of study is that a great deal of technique taught is for the most part useless. After many years of studying one realizes that they are better off focusing on a few combat proven techniques that can be applied in many situation and master those technique instead of wasting a lot of time practicing technique that they will never use.

Most of the martial arts only test to a certain rank and after that rank is given for time invested. In the time of the modern fighting arts founders they did not have a lot of belt rank White, Black, Master and that was all there was. It did not take twenty years to become a master of an art like it does today. Martial arts of modern day are for the most part a business and they prolong the learning process in an effort to keep students in the dojo.

Back to the main topic of the thread;

To claim someone is the best is hard to do. There are many great fighters that do not compete because they have nothing to prove or they have a combat mindset of kill or be killed that prevent them from entering competition.

For the Gracies to boast about challenging Mike Tyson is rather funny all by it’s self.
Let examine the facts. Mike Tyson makes millions for every fight he has. What possible incentive does he have to wrestle a Gracie? That challenge is tailor made for them to boast about knowing from the very beginning that he would not reply. Jon Bluming has had a standing $100.000 challenge for over 40 years that none of the Gracies have bothered to except. In fact he has a student that sent a formal challenge to the Gracies and they never bothered to answer.

About Mike Tyson;

I am not a Mike Tyson fan but anyone that thinks he is a joke needs to come back to reality. Over the years I’ve listened to different martial artist exclaim how they could beat Mike Tyson in a street fight and all I can do is laugh. Most of these guys have little real life conflicts they have been involved in and most definitely not against world-class fighters. Mike Tyson has fought every top fighter for the last twenty years. He is a proven warrior and he’s very tough. Do you honestly believe he doesn’t know how to street fight. I would like to point out that he likes to brawl and the rules of boxing work against him more that help him.

BTW I’ve heard that he might be involved in K-1 competitions in the near future.

Respectfully,
Rev. Dean

 

[Littledragon]

Hello everyone, I hope all are well today.

It’s amazing how little difference there is between debating and arguing.
I have been reading this thread on and off for some time and find it to be somewhat comical but there have been some valid points made from all sides. Nonetheless I feel compelled to respond so please allow me to add my two cents worth.

I agree with the point of view that the rules involved in any fighting competition make it unlike real combat.

Ground fighting is the last thing I would want to do in if involved in a street fight for a couple of reasons.

1. In most street fights one would be defending oneself from multiple attackers and the ground is the last place one would choose to be.

2. Rolling around on the concrete is not my idea of a good time.

However it’s a good idea to learn some ground fighting incase one finds oneself in that unfortunate position.

I would like to address the mastery of a martial art and the higher level of techniques.
In my opinion what Mr. Lee was trying to convey in his fighting philosophy is the higher techniques of fighting arts. (The absence of exact technique and the spontaneous reaction to a given situation.)

What I have found in my years of study is that a great deal of technique taught is for the most part useless. After many years of studying one realizes that they are better off focusing on a few combat proven techniques that can be applied in many situation and master those technique instead of wasting a lot of time practicing technique that they will never use.

Most of the martial arts only test to a certain rank and after that rank is given for time invested. In the time of the modern fighting arts founders they did not have a lot of belt rank White, Black, Master and that was all there was. It did not take twenty years to become a master of an art like it does today. Martial arts of modern day are for the most part a business and they prolong the learning process in an effort to keep students in the dojo.

Back to the main topic of the thread;

To claim someone is the best is hard to do. There are many great fighters that do not compete because they have nothing to prove or they have a combat mindset of kill or be killed that prevent them from entering competition.

For the Gracies to boast about challenging Mike Tyson is rather funny all by it’s self.
Let examine the facts. Mike Tyson makes millions for every fight he has. What possible incentive does he have to wrestle a Gracie? That challenge is tailor made for them to boast about knowing from the very beginning that he would not reply. Jon Bluming has had a standing $100.000 challenge for over 40 years that none of the Gracies have bothered to except. In fact he has a student that sent a formal challenge to the Gracies and they never bothered to answer.

About Mike Tyson;

I am not a Mike Tyson fan but anyone that thinks he is a joke needs to come back to reality. Over the years I’ve listened to different martial artist exclaim how they could beat Mike Tyson in a street fight and all I can do is laugh. Most of these guys have little real life conflicts they have been involved in and most definitely not against world-class fighters. Mike Tyson has fought every top fighter for the last twenty years. He is a proven warrior and he’s very tough. Do you honestly believe he doesn’t know how to street fight. I would like to point out that he likes to brawl and the rules of boxing work against him more that help him.

BTW I’ve heard that he might be involved in K-1 competitions in the near future.

Respectfully,
Rev. Dean

I agree with everything you have said except the Gracie segment.

 

[Bushido]

“What I have found in my years of study is that a great deal of technique taught is for the most part useless. After many years of studying one realizes that they are better off focusing on a few combat proven techniques that can be applied in many situation and master those technique instead of wasting a lot of time practicing technique that they will never use.”

Well in my many years of study that has not been my experience. My experience is that people don’t understand their systems very well. There are small difference between a technique that is battle ready, and one that is just for show, and they are the SAME technique. You just have to understand the technique for the technique that it is, and not just as some movement that you were shown. For instance every movement in Aikido is effective, just not every practitioner. You need to know how to perform the movement, why to perform the movement, and where to perform the movement. Most think it’s all about the how, and they aren’t even learning that correctly.


“Most of the martial arts only test to a certain rank and after that rank is given for time invested. In the time of the modern fighting arts founders they did not have a lot of belt rank White, Black, Master and that was all there was. It did not take twenty years to become a master of an art like it does today. Martial arts of modern day are for the most part a business and they prolong the learning process in an effort to keep students in the dojo.”

This is just wrong! The ranking system for forms of Budo is age old. Kyus and Dans have been around being use for everything from tea ceremony to martial arts for hundreds of years. Master is not a rank and never has been, it is a title, just like Shihan. Back then it did take about twenty years to master a system, and that was D*MN fast, but then again they LIVED martial arts. The martial arts schools that are all about business are the ones handing out rank quicker than the ones that aren’t! They hand them more and more rank so that they think they’re getting something for their money, and will keep coming.

Fact is that any martial art is just that a martial ART, it’s a life long pursuit. If you know martial technique, that is like a Painter knowing how to use the brushes and mix the paints. If you know martial theory, than that is like the Painter knowing perspective, shading, light effects, color balance, those kinds of things. The art is what comes from the soul and be it paint or martial, it takes many years of study to become good at, especially in this fast food Mc Donald’s society of ours.

 

[Littledragon]

“What I have found in my years of study is that a great deal of technique taught is for the most part useless. After many years of studying one realizes that they are better off focusing on a few combat proven techniques that can be applied in many situation and master those technique instead of wasting a lot of time practicing technique that they will never use.”

Well in my many years of study that has not been my experience. My experience is that people don’t understand their systems very well. There are small difference between a technique that is battle ready, and one that is just for show, and they are the SAME technique. You just have to understand the technique for the technique that it is, and not just as some movement that you were shown. For instance every movement in Aikido is effective, just not every practitioner. You need to know how to perform the movement, why to perform the movement, and where to perform the movement. Most think it’s all about the how, and they aren’t even learning that correctly.


“Most of the martial arts only test to a certain rank and after that rank is given for time invested. In the time of the modern fighting arts founders they did not have a lot of belt rank White, Black, Master and that was all there was. It did not take twenty years to become a master of an art like it does today. Martial arts of modern day are for the most part a business and they prolong the learning process in an effort to keep students in the dojo.”

This is just wrong! The ranking system for forms of Budo is age old. Kyus and Dans have been around being use for everything from tea ceremony to martial arts for hundreds of years. Master is not a rank and never has been, it is a title, just like Shihan. Back then it did take about twenty years to master a system, and that was D*MN fast, but then again they LIVED martial arts. The martial arts school that are all about business are the one handing out rank quick than the ones that aren’t! They have them more and more rank so that they think they’re getting something for their money, and will keep coming.

Fact is that any martial art is just that a martial ART, it’s a life long pursuit. If you know martial, that is like a Painter knowing how to use the brushes and mix the paints. If you know martial theory, than that is like the Painter knowing perspective, shading, light effects, color balance, those kinds of things. The art is what comes from the soul and be it painter of martial, which takes many years of study to become good at, especially in this fast food Mc Donald’s society of ours.

Very well said!

 

[tenshinaikidoka]

Bushido, we think alike, I think your great!!! LOL, and very well said!!!!

 

[yudansha]

Tyson (perhpaps this is why that's the name of Seagal's dog)

Rev. Dean, it's good that you pointed out that about Mike Tyson. Anyone who has watched Tyson's (especially earlier years) fights knows that he is one powerful creature. He's not very fast, but he is one tough fighter. He can take hits if he cannot avoid them, but if you cannot avoid HIS hits ... LOL ... that's not something I'd like to volunteer for let me say that. One hit made Tyson's opponents literally get off of the ring and 'fly' away from him. And these were contenders for the world titles too. Boxing may not be an art, but I don't think many would willingly go out of their way to challenge Mike Tyson to a fight (those are also the ones who might not appreciate the atonomy of an ear very much either ). Tyson is that type of street fighting boxer that Stallone portrayed in Rocky. Even against the Gracies, Tyson is a big guy to put to the ground. It would make for one interesting Las Vegas event though.

Bushido, I'm in agreement with you too. You're good with words.

 

[Kido Ryu]

Hello everyone, I hope all is well.
Sorry it has taken me so long to reply but I don't have regular use of the net.
According to the Kodokan,
The Kyu-Dan system was developed for Kodokan Judo. Ju jitsu styles either had no rank at all, or rank systems identified by varying grades of teacher certification, roughly corresponding to "beginning teacher," "advanced teacher," and so forth. Kano, the modern educator, saw little organization or incentive for students to learn an organized curriculum of techniques, and little recognition of advanced students as teachers, or teachers as advanced students. Non-black belt grades, then, reflected a hierarchy of technical skills to the point where one might be considered to have mastered a sufficient foundation of Judo to be considered, finally, a true student of Judo: this was a first Dan, or black belt, rank. At first consisting of three white belt, three brown belt, and three black belt grades, the system gradually expanded to encompass genuine colored belts, such as yellow and green, and ten Dan ranks.



Jigoro Kano started studying jujitsu when he was 16 and by the time he was 22 he was a master of two jujitsu styles, Tenjin-Shinyo Ryu ju jitsu and Kito-ryu ju jitsu. It seems to me that is only 6 years to master two styles. I’ll admit he did practice a lot but he also worked a steady job and attended school which is the same obstacles students face today.

Respectfully,
Rev.Dean

 

[Lotussan]

Rev, it's so good to see you posting...

 

[Bushido]

Hello everyone, I hope all is well.
Sorry it has taken me so long to reply but I don't have regular use of the net.
According to the Kodokan,
The Kyu-Dan system was developed for Kodokan Judo. Ju jitsu styles either had no rank at all, or rank systems identified by varying grades of teacher certification, roughly corresponding to "beginning teacher," "advanced teacher," and so forth. Kano, the modern educator, saw little organization or incentive for students to learn an organized curriculum of techniques, and little recognition of advanced students as teachers, or teachers as advanced students. Non-black belt grades, then, reflected a hierarchy of technical skills to the point where one might be considered to have mastered a sufficient foundation of Judo to be considered, finally, a true student of Judo: this was a first Dan, or black belt, rank. At first consisting of three white belt, three brown belt, and three black belt grades, the system gradually expanded to encompass genuine colored belts, such as yellow and green, and ten Dan ranks.



Jigoro Kano started studying jujitsu when he was 16 and by the time he was 22 he was a master of two jujitsu styles, Tenjin-Shinyo Ryu ju jitsu and Kito-ryu ju jitsu. It seems to me that is only 6 years to master two styles. I’ll admit he did practice a lot but he also worked a steady job and attended school which is the same obstacles students face today.

Respectfully,
Rev.Dean

I wonder where you find this stuff??? The true dan system doesn't have colors in it. The reason for the black blelt when you get to shodan is because over time the white belt you were wearing has aged and now looks black. However you are right as far as differing systems using their own ranking systems. This was true in a number of cases. The form of Kenjitsu I studied broke rank into five different sections, each with for grades. That is still 20 ranks! Four more than Aikido. Like I said Kyus and Dans have been being use for a VERY long time, how ever it was Judo that first added color so people could easily distinguish what rank a person was just by looking at them.