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Seagal's Aikido style???

Aikilove

Old member aikidoka
#42
No! It might only be an aid for someone already familiar with the techniques and with someone regularely correcting your mistakes.

/J
 

Aikilove

Old member aikidoka
#43
jhogan said:
If you are pushing against an opponent you have lost, as all the opponent has to do is accept your force and suck you in so that you are disadvantaged.
TDWoj said:
If you pull uke into you, you are looking at a reversal. Push him away (gosh, I can hear Bill Collins Sensei's voice in my head as I type that) from your centre, and you've got him.
Did any of you even read my post? (Not that I am right or anything)
You are both right and you are both misunderstanding each other.
You don't really push as such. You extend your arms in front of your center.
You don't really pull as such. You connect ukes center with your center and step back.

/J
 
#44
Aikilove said:
Did any of you even read my post? (Not that I am right or anything)
You are both right and you are both misunderstanding each other.
You don't really push as such. You extend your arms in front of your center.
You don't really pull as such. You connect ukes center with your center and step back.

/J
You 'extend ki'....

p.s. (No, I never read your posts.... ahahah).... (just kidding)
 

TDWoj

Administrator
Staff member
#45
Aikilove said:
Did any of you even read my post? (Not that I am right or anything)
You are both right and you are both misunderstanding each other.
You don't really push as such. You extend your arms in front of your center.
You don't really pull as such. You connect ukes center with your center and step back.

/J
Well, I did; however, right now, I'm just at the level of "push! don't pull!" and I'm not seeing any technique (at my level) where pulling works. If I ever reach shodan, we'll talk again....
 

Kaze

New Member
#46
Ok I'm not gonna read all that but I just wanna say.

Aikido on it's own is not a true practicle form in real hand to hand combat, but rather when's mastered and mixed with the straight forward striking force of Karate and the throwing and locking campability of Judo along with the close range campability of Wing Chung can it truely be a force to be reckoned with. In that respect Seagal has made great contributions towards Aikido.
The Aikido that Seagal shows in very similiar to Chinese Military "ChinNa" which is mixture of Karate Striking for offense utilizing "Ying Chi Gong" external Chi manipulations, Chen Style TaiChi for defense utilizing "Ruan Chi Gong" internal Chi manipulation, Judo for grappling and joint manipulation utilizing traditional "ShuaJiao" and WingChung for close range pressure point manipulations and striking. Military Chin Na I believe is one of the strongest if not the strongest form of martial arts in the world, but due to military secrecy very few people practise it and even fewer demonstrate it, Seagal's style is closest I've ever seen to China's Military ChinNa.
Which is to say that Seagal at his peak would have been able to hold his own in a non holds barred fight to the death against even the toughest communist black beret officer. Thats saying a lot.
 

Aikilove

Old member aikidoka
#47
Kaze, you are contradicting yourself.
Seagal teaches aikido. Nothing else. Not a mix of aikido and Karate, Chin Na, Wing Tsun or what have you. Aikido!
So if you then both say that aikido can not hold it's own AND Seagal can, you are contradicting yourself.

Aikido can hold its own just fine. The Q is, can you?

/J
 

Kaze

New Member
#48
Seagal teaches what he teaches, but his style at least in his films shows a variant on numerous styles with Aikido as a base form. For example Seagal's striking is derived from Karate, his locking is based off his Judo experience, and his close range striking seems to resemble off springs of the Wing Chung form. I am not saying that Seagal's Aikido is anything short of spectacular; but as any great martial artist knows one form cannot conquer all obstacles, even Bruce Lee said that he valued the direct striking force of Karate, the foot work of boxing and the close range capabilities of Wing Chung. I believe what makes Seagal unique and hence great is his adaptability. In this sense his on screen form resembles that of ChinNa which is by nature a mixed form.
I never contradict myself.

Remember any form on it's own is lacking, it's when the best of various forms merge do you get a true street worthy martial arts.
Seagal knows this, the Q is do you? LOL
 
#49
Aikilove said:
Kaze, you are contradicting yourself.
Seagal teaches aikido. Nothing else. Not a mix of aikido and Karate, Chin Na, Wing Tsun or what have you. Aikido!
So if you then both say that aikido can not hold it's own AND Seagal can, you are contradicting yourself.

Aikido can hold its own just fine. The Q is, can you?

/J
Well, Seagal teaches Aikido, right.But he introduce Aikijutsu tecniques, how his Sankyo variations, and jiu-jutsu techniques like his chokes.Also his way of punch with the hip force is mixed with Karate or his same concept.

To the question, that it´s not for me, by the way, but I want to answer of
Aikido can hold its own just fine. The Q is, can you?

I can in the dojo.But don´t forget that in the dojo never practise all the atemis(punches)really, and in the street I will need the atemis for make the Aikido works.

What I mean is Aikido is the way you feel the combat and focus your internal energy, although you introduce another useful distraction and reaction elements.
 

tenshinaikidoka

Martial Art Student
#50
Seagal does not incorporate Judo, Aikijujutsu, Chi Na, Karate or any other art into what he does. Bottom line, he does Aikido and he teaches Aikido. His atemi is not Karate, it is Aikido, and it is how Aikido was done "back in the day". Some schools, teachers and orginazations do not do atemi, and if they do, they do not do it right. Seagal does it right, and it may look like other things, but trust me folks, he is doing Aikido. To think he is doing something else, well, then your just uninformed or want to start a debate. Either way, I DO know what I am talking about in the respect.
 

Kaze

New Member
#50
Well I guess there's no way to argue with a Aikido fanatic like you judging by your Ava you are well informed in the true ways of Aikido. LOL
Oh I didn't say he incorporated Chin Na not (ChiNa) into his form I said his form is similar to Chinese Military CHIN NA.
 
#51
pitts said:
QUESTION, Do any of you think that Aikido can be learned from a video, such as the 3D one advertised here?
I think not at all, Aikido can be learned only from the daily practise.

Maybe you can SEE an specific techique and after LEARN that specific with practise, but not Aikido, an lonely techique.

Videos can help the cash of the store.
 
#52
Thanks Aikilove and Latino - I guess I'm just out of luck, there is nothing taught similar to Aikido in my area. If anyone every wants to open their on dojo please come here (Dothan Alabama).
 

tenshinaikidoka

Martial Art Student
#53
Sorry Kaze, I misspelled Chin Na...my bad!!! I am not a fanatic, but I do know what I am talking about in that respect. And Pitts, it is true that to learn you cannot do it properly from video. Have you gone and done a dojo search on either Aikiweb or Aikido Journal? There may be something close to your area.
 

Aikilove

Old member aikidoka
#53
For everyone that think they have a clue on what Seagal do after watching his movies (save perhaps PBT):
IT'S MOVIES! HOLLYWOOD! You know... Make believe! Entertainment!
What is it not then? It's not budo!
Of curse they choreograph in fancy kicks, punches, flips, and jumps! It's action movies! Nothing to do with aikido or how Seagal traines and teaches aikido.
I'm sure that Seagal uses kicks, punches and locks just like many others doing aikido. Some don't. It's still Aikido. Not Aikijujutsu, or judo or Chin Na or what have you. AIKIDO.
If you go to seminars around the world you will see that people train aikido differently. Implementing and focusing on different aspects. They all (should) have the one denomination however: It's all traceable back to O-sensei and how he did things. (He used kicks, punches, locks, throws, chokes etc.)

/J
 
#54
tenshinaikidoka said:
Sorry Kaze, I misspelled Chin Na...my bad!!! I am not a fanatic, but I do know what I am talking about in that respect. And Pitts, it is true that to learn you cannot do it properly from video. Have you gone and done a dojo search on either Aikiweb or Aikido Journal? There may be something close to your area.
Yes, Two in Florida, but both of them are 2 1/2 hours away.
 
#55
tenshinaikidoka said:
Seagal does not incorporate Judo, Aikijujutsu, Chi Na, Karate or any other art into what he does. Bottom line, he does Aikido and he teaches Aikido. His atemi is not Karate, it is Aikido, and it is how Aikido was done "back in the day". Some schools, teachers and orginazations do not do atemi, and if they do, they do not do it right. Seagal does it right, and it may look like other things, but trust me folks, he is doing Aikido. To think he is doing something else, well, then your just uninformed or want to start a debate. Either way, I DO know what I am talking about in the respect.

No No i'm not agree at all!!!!! in the Aikido of steven seagal there are some additional techniques of daito-ryu Aikijujutsu like strong strongulations, leg block...... and sorry it is normal because the root of Aikido is daito-ryu Aikijujutsu. All people who train in Aikido, do techniques whose the basis come from the daito-ryu
Why nobody in this site want to understand this important point of the history of AIKIDO!!!!
 

Aikilove

Old member aikidoka
#56
Daito-ryu fighter:
C'mon! Most of us Know this! No-one is disputing the history of Aikido. Not me at least! BUT, that doesn't mean that just because Seagal show some blocks and strangulations in his Hollywood movies he is suddenly doing Daito Ryu!! It would be like saying that everytime a judo competitor does a throw he is doing Kito ryu or when he manage to get a arm lock from mat-fight he is doing Tenshi Shinyo Ryu! Or like saying that some Kendoka just did Ono ha Itto ryu with that strike and Shinkage ryu with that block!
Why don't we all just admit that we are doing Kaliparyat from India, since it seems like that where most MA came from anyway!

/J
 
#58
and to add:

i know what seems a daito-ryu aikijujutsu technique.....me and my brother train in this martial art.....at this moment my brother is in Japan where he train with Inoue (student of Kodo Sensei who was a close student of Takeda Sensei) and Shimpo Sensei... he has the Hidden mukuruku.....and believe me, i certify you that some Seagal techniques look like Daito-ryu.
 

Aikilove

Old member aikidoka
#59
*Sigh*
Your missing the point!
Just because most people within aikido community are not doing much with strangulation doesn't mean it's not aikido when an aikidoka is doing it! They have strangulation in Judo too. Why whould it be more Daito ryu then Judo when he stangle someone.
Since you visited one of his seminares you might want to tell me how often Seagal said "This is a strangulation from Daito ryu". Let me guess... zero times? Why don't we ask Seagal how much Daito ryu he has been training? Let me guess again... zero times?
In fact Seagal has trained a little bit in Judo if I'm not mistaken, so if anything, it's from there he got it.
Still IT IS AIKIDO!
Heck! Even I do stangulation as a variation of Irimi nage sometimes. Even I do training agains kicks and punches to the face and combos of both sometimes. I still do not consider myself doing anything but aikido.

Unless you argue that aikido=daito ryu (which is a separate issue all together!), doing something unusial like kicking and strangulation as a variation does not mean that you are suddenly doing a different art.

I mean from what art does a frontal kick (mae geri) come from? I'm sure even prehistoric humans did that (way before there even was such a thing as Martial Arts).
How about strangulation (say rear naked choke)? Judo? Tenshin shinyo ryu? Daito Ryu? Yagyu shingan ryu? Takeuchi Ryu? Sumo? Chuan Fa? Chin Na? Kaliparyat?
How about a normal wrist turn (kote gaeshi)? You don't think that existed before aikido or even Daito ryu?

All the components (molecules) of an apple exists seperately at other places. Some in peares others in oranges, trees, flowers etc. Some even in humans e.g. water). But it's the precise combination of all of these molecules and components of an apple that makes it an apple (not a mix of peares, oranges, trees, flowers and humans!). Same with aikido.
I don't think I can say it any clearer.

/J
 

tenshinaikidoka

Martial Art Student
#60
Ok, Aikilove, I must say you said it perfect, and I for one could not agree more. I have recently started training in Daito Ryu, so I am not any type of authority in that art at this point, but I have trained Aikido for years, and I too practise strangulations and other types of defense against punches and kicks. And I learend all that from Aikido not Daito Ryu.

Not sure if your trying to start another argument or what Daito Ryu Fighter, but come on, there are similar techniques found in several martial arts all over the world. And I know that Segal HAS NOT trained in Daito Ryu. YOu should have asked him, he would have said he had not.

What you have said, Daito Ryu, is a very common misconception that an inexperienced person with limited knowledge of Aikido would have said. I am not sure if your trying to assert the superiority of your art over Aikido, or what, but lets get facts together before there is misinformation spread.

I was recently at an Aikido seminar with Isoyama Shihan, and he did some very amazing techniques, some very "hard" techniques. Now I have sen these done in Daito Ryu as well, does that mean, because I haven't seen other Aikidoka do them, that he must have learned them from Daito Ryu????? No, not likely. He was an uchi deshi of O'Sensei and that is where he learned his techniques. Now I know and most do know, that Daito Ryu is the parent art of Aikido. It is a documented fact that he used Daito Ryu as the technical basis for Aikido. He tweeked things to fit with his ideals and way of doing things. Anyway, I got off topic, but yes, there are strangles in Aikido. I have trained in chokes in Aikido, and they look just like what Seagal Shihan does!!!!!!!
 

tenshinaikidoka

Martial Art Student
#60
And I was refering to O'Sensei when talking about using Daito Ryu as the technical basis for Aikido and tweeking it. Don't want ya to think I was refering to anyone else!! LOL!!!!!
 

Aikilove

Old member aikidoka
#60
Thanks Tenshin!
We really should hook up some day!
I'm in NYC at least a couple of weaks a year (my wife was born there)

Listen Daito ryu.... If I (who comes from Sweden and haven't trained for Seagal one second) and Tenshinaikidoka (who has), agree on issues like this, don't you think there is something too it?

Man I'm drunk right now! (X-mas party at the Chemical Physics department here at the University U know! :) ) so sorry if I'm rambling!

/J