I Wonder...

[Disciple]

Not so much common sense as it is overwhelming negativity.

Sensei is not perfect, no human is. What I'd like to see for once is somebody focus on the GOOD things that he does. The humanitarian and charitable causes that he gives his time and money to. The fact that he has always taken the time to give martial arts demonstrations and share his considerable knowledge, even when his fame was at its peak. The fact that he clearly does love his family, despite the various relationship issues he may have had in the past. The fact that he had the guts to make valid political statements in his movies even though most people turned it around on him and tried to make him a laughing stock because of it. Because all of these things are also "well documented". I guess people don't like to focus on them because they're not juicy gossip material. Very sad.

I'm not making excuses for him. The official website is clearly being neglected, but if people actually bothered to think they might realize that he has bigger concerns like the fact that his movie career is in a serious downturn, critics are savaging him left right and center, and the real life mobsters are making threats. People should use some of that "common sense" once in a while. And besides, I used to visit that website years ago, I remember the chaotic mess there... Is it any wonder he has no desire to keep the official site going when people behave like animals? It's supposed to Seagal FAN site. With fans like this, who needs the mob?

Seagal is a great human being and I aspire to be like him in the best way.

 

[Rodrigo]

The good thing about Arnold being elected, is that he may not shoot movies for next 4 years !!! wow !!! that's great news !!!!!!!! As for the people in California..... well.... let's pray.....

 

[Sleeping Fox]

*grabs the big stick Td had and bash's Rodrigo over the head*

 

[Rodrigo]

*grabs the big stick Td had and bash's Rodrigo over the head*

Why all that violence ???? I wonder if we could schedule a meeting of the fans here, a worldwide meeting, it would not be easy to avoid the fights I imagine... hahahahaha
What SF ??? do you like big Arnie ?? Or you like the State of California ???

 

[Trinity]

My Karma ran over your Dogma. (Trinity in a really Kaka mood)

 

[Trinity]

Besides,I said "What If"So come on my most favorite fans on the net,pull-up a warm bowl of milk and relax

 

[TDWoj]

Not so much common sense as it is overwhelming negativity.

Sensei is not perfect, no human is. What I'd like to see for once is somebody focus on the GOOD things that he does. The humanitarian and charitable causes that he gives his time and money to. The fact that he has always taken the time to give martial arts demonstrations and share his considerable knowledge, even when his fame was at its peak. The fact that he clearly does love his family, despite the various relationship issues he may have had in the past. The fact that he had the guts to make valid political statements in his movies even though most people turned it around on him and tried to make him a laughing stock because of it. Because all of these things are also "well documented". I guess people don't like to focus on them because they're not juicy gossip material. Very sad.

I'm not making excuses for him. The official website is clearly being neglected, but if people actually bothered to think they might realize that he has bigger concerns like the fact that his movie career is in a serious downturn, critics are savaging him left right and center, and the real life mobsters are making threats. People should use some of that "common sense" once in a while. And besides, I used to visit that website years ago, I remember the chaotic mess there... Is it any wonder he has no desire to keep the official site going when people behave like animals? It's supposed to Seagal FAN site. With fans like this, who needs the mob?

Seagal is a great human being and I aspire to be like him in the best way.

The trouble is, Disciple, that though he might once have given time and money to humanitarian and charitable causes, he doesn't do it any more, unless it redounds on himself in some way, mitigates some bad piece of publicity that he himself has perpetrated. And I know this is going to stick in some folks' craw, but his troubles with the Mafia are his own fault. He'd have to have been one hundred percent willfully blind about the people he was hanging out with all this time not to know who he was dealing with, and that's a tough one to swallow.

The fact that his movie career is in a serious downturn is, again, his own fault. He doesn't *have* to make bad movies; but he does, time and again. Clearly, he's got no one in his camp with enough balls to tell him "no, Steven, this stinks, don't do it." I can only conclude that the reason he's perpetrating such stinkers on us is a) because he needs the money and b) he just doesn't give a damn any more.

I am a fan, Disciple; I love watching his movies - well, most of them, anyhow. And seeing him go downhill with the last few films has really been hard to take. I know he can do better. I think it's such a waste that he isn't.

Comparing me to the mob, though, is a little harsh. You make it sound like I'm his enemy; that I'm out to "get" him. Believe me, I'm not. But, I can't be blindly adoring of him, either - I wish I could be, it would make life so much easier. I do admire the characters he's played on-screen, and I hope, when you say you want to be just like him, it's those characters, full of honour and integrity, that you're talking about. Because the sad fact is that the real-life Steven is nothing like that, no matter how badly you want to believe that he is.

We can admire the man we see on the screen. I know that I do. I just don't make the mistake of believing what we see on the screen is the real man.

 

[TDWoj]

*grabs the big stick Td had and bash's Rodrigo over the head*

Hey! Leave my stick alone! I don't want anyone bashing anyone with my stick (sorry, Rodrigo - Fox took it when I wasn't looking).

-TD, getting stern

Arnie's not a stupid man, though; he's got smarts where it counts. It'll be interesting to see what he does in the time he has, if he can fix California's troubles (though I deplore his being a Republican). However, I don't think he's got four years, though - he's only got until November 2004, doesn't he? the balance of Davis' term? (I don't know American election law, I'm asking if anyone does know).

 

[Disciple]

There's no point in arguing with you because you're stating your opinion as it was hard fact. The truth is, nobody here really knows what he's like. I have my own ideas based on the many things I've read about him over the last 15 or so years since he's been in the spotlight, and I'm fairly sure it's an accurate picture of the man, give or take a few details.

 

[Lotussan]

I agree with disciple in that I know some of the real man has to be present
on the screen, it's impossible for that not to happen...
Sure he's not perfect, and maybe sometimes he's downright ornry, but I am aware of that, and in some way I find him no less charming...
He's got to quote TD, some...Well you know what she said...
I find him exciting and powerful...
But never mind my errm, very female reasoning...
He's human, simple enough...
Let's get that straight and we'll all be just fine...
It's totally wrong to disrespect him here, a sight which is devoted to him...
No matter what he does or has done, and no matter anyone's view of his actions, we need to keep this in mind...
Let him be, it's his life and how he lives it is his choice, if someone doesn't
like what he does then I guess they just don't like him...
If TD is so damn dissapointed in him, then what's she always going here?

 

[Amos Stevens]

Here comes Amos piter patering up with his 2 cents...most of us here have only read & heard about Seagal,not actually seen him in person let alone meet him.
Just seeing him in a crowd from a distance isn't much to judge by either,but if someone was to watch him for a bit-be in the background for a bit then you would see how he does truthfully act & how he treats others.
Until each individial person on this board does have that chance to watch him from a far or up close,then you will not be able to say for sure one way or the other how he truthfully is.
I think any fan of any actor needs to keep an open mind-as TD said,she is a fan of his movies,but also realizes that he is an human being & makes mistakes-like everyone & has a side he would let his fans see & a side that someone around him would see different. So anyone can idolize him or be a fan but try to keep an open mind that he may be completely different than what you're watching from a afar.
Two sides to a coin-two sides to a person.

 

[Lotussan]

I am not under any big illusions, and I am not making any serious judgements no matter what anyone here thinks I am doing...I can't see how anyone can do that, really...HOWEVER, I do know how I feel about this man, based upon my perception of what I have seen and heard, and frankly I don't think anyone can ever change that, even the real deal himself couldn't burst my bubble, so to speak, heh, heh...

 

[Baseball Lady]

TD,

I think Arnie will have about two and a half years left in office. I thought I heard it on the news one night

BB Lady

 

[TDWoj]

There's no point in arguing with you because you're stating your opinion as it was hard fact. The truth is, nobody here really knows what he's like. I have my own ideas based on the many things I've read about him over the last 15 or so years since he's been in the spotlight, and I'm fairly sure it's an accurate picture of the man, give or take a few details.

We disagree, Disciple, that's all. It's not an argument, about who is right and who isn't. The evidence I come to my conclusions with is the evidence you might be dismissing with "give or take a few details". It doesn't mean only one of us can be right. There is a distinct possibility that we're both right - and that we're both wrong, in either case, in greater or lesser degrees.

A few days ago, I had the astonishing experience of running into two people who were connected with Exit Wounds, one second-hand (his friend worked on the film) and one more or less directly (she worked in one of the businesses on the street where they were shooting and was standing *this close* to Steven between takes).

Neither one of them had anything good to say about him. Neither one of them had any vested interest whatsoever in slagging him off; they were just reporting on what they saw and experienced in his presence. There are numerous accounts of his less than stellar behaviour to be found all over the place, and - in my opinion - are hard to dismiss because of their sheer weight in numbers.

I don't dismiss these reports, though perhaps some I do take with a liberal dose of salt; clearly, there are those who do dismiss them, dispensing with salt altogether. I've read a lot about him as well; and it seems to me that the man he is today is not the man he was even a few years ago. I think he *used* to be just the way you believe he is; I don't disagree with that. But something in the last five to six years has definitely changed him, and not for the better.

Someone recently posted an article quoting him on, I believe it was Into the Sun. In it, was one big, humoungous lie - okay, I'll soften that a bit and call it a deliberate misrepresentation - one that all of us as fans of his KNOW is absolutely not true - and no one - except me - commented on it. No one even commented on my comment about it! It's like everyone was hypnotised into some kind of collective trance and swallowed the lie whole and entire without even the slightest protest of surprise or wonder that he could come out and say something so provably untrue - or, again I'll soften this a bit, that he out and out contradicted his own documented self-history.

And that little bit of sleight-of-hand in OFAK, knocking eight years off his birthdate, as if any one this side of sanity believes he's only forty-three years old. I realise it's "the movies" but then, why use his own birthdate? It's just plain weird.

This is what I'm having trouble with: reconciling what I want to believe about him with what he says and does himself that shakes that belief. You make it sound like I *want* him to be a man of bad character. That is so far from the truth it ain't even in this solar system. I *want* to believe he is a good man, an honourable man; I do believe he may have had some good qualities once, a long time ago (though treating women with respect doesn't seem to be among them). But I do not believe the man he is today is the kind of man you believe he is (though he might have been once). And I am deeply, deeply saddened by that.

-TD, expecting a note from Martin Fisher at any moment

 

[TDWoj]

TD,

I think Arnie will have about two and a half years left in office. I thought I heard it on the news one night

BB Lady

Thanks, BB Lady! I wasn't sure if state governors were elected on the same schedule as the presidential one, or whether they were elected "in between" or on no schedule at all. I did do a course in American history which covered that topic in my last year of high school, but, gosh, that was 28 years ago, and memory does dim after a while!

 

[TDWoj]

I agree with disciple in that I know some of the real man has to be present
on the screen, it's impossible for that not to happen...
Sure he's not perfect, and maybe sometimes he's downright ornry, but I am aware of that, and in some way I find him no less charming...
He's got to quote TD, some...Well you know what she said...
I find him exciting and powerful...
But never mind my errm, very female reasoning...
He's human, simple enough...
Let's get that straight and we'll all be just fine...
It's totally wrong to disrespect him here, a sight which is devoted to him...
No matter what he does or has done, and no matter anyone's view of his actions, we need to keep this in mind...
Let him be, it's his life and how he lives it is his choice, if someone doesn't
like what he does then I guess they just don't like him...
If TD is so damn dissapointed in him, then what's she always going here?

First of all, let's make it clear that I intend no disrespect to the man himself. I do not call him names, make fun of him and, in case you've forgotten, am not only female fan-silly about him on the most basic level of pure sex appeal (which I refrain from sharing because, well, there's enough of that from other sources), but I am among the first to defend him in such cases where someone does get disrespectful and unnecessarily cruel. (Have you already forgotten my essay about the court artist?)

If you're suggesting that because this is a fan site, the only comments one can make are those which praise him to the skies regardless of whether that praise is warranted, and forbid any kind of observations or criticism of his shortcomings whether they be personal or professional, then I am in complete agreement with you: maybe I don't belong here.

However, I don't believe that this site does have those restrictions. I could be wrong; I'm sure Craig or Amos or Suzi will inform me when I've crossed that line, and take appropriate action.

I realise that I hold an unpopular view; but does that mean I'm hobbled from expressing that view simply because this is a fan site and therefore I must only sing his praises? I do sing his praises, quite a bit. But I'm not blinded by illusion, either. Where else could I go to express my thoughts - and my disappointments - if not here? Just because I disagree with some folks here about aspects of his character, does that mean I'm not allowed to say so?

I'd like nothing more than to be proved wrong, in a big way or even in a small way. If he turns up here one day and says and does nice things, I will bow my head in shame and admit I misjudged his character. I doubt it will happen; but one never knows. I won't be holding my breath, though.

-TD, who loves the illusion as much as the next girl, but accepts that reality is likely very different

 

[Jalu]

Wow!!!!!!

Five pages on this subject already...maybe we should keep ourselves as busy as Seagal.

 

[Lotussan]

He could be both nice and respectful, and not sometimes not so nice, and disrespectful, depending...
I am not denying that fact at all...Aren't we all sometimes? Maybe I just like the idea that he has some real guts to tell people where to go sometimes...What's wrong with that? Not saying I want to be treated badly by him, of course I couldn't stand that, but I am hoping he gives what he gets in most cases...Maybe he gives some stuff that he shouldn't...Hopefully this is not the case very often, though...You sound as if you think he's really jaded for some reason, what's your feeling?
In the last 5 or 6 years you say...What do you mean?

 

[ORANGATUANG]

He was a body builder ya naunce, and is an actor like Seagal.
They're both in the same boat...for intelligence and acting ability.

What planet are you on Sleeping Fox? If us gals didnt know anything what the hell are we doing here you goose....

You think arnold/steven are in the same boat (your dreaming,dude)
no-way is arnold in the same league.

So be a good little sleeping fox and practice what you preach.

 

[ORANGATUANG]

First of all, let's make it clear that I intend no disrespect to the man himself. I do not call him names, make fun of him and, in case you've forgotten, am not only female fan-silly about him on the most basic level of pure sex appeal (which I refrain from sharing because, well, there's enough of that from other sources), but I am among the first to defend him in such cases where someone does get disrespectful and unnecessarily cruel. (Have you already forgotten my essay about the court artist?)

If you're suggesting that because this is a fan site, the only comments one can make are those which praise him to the skies regardless of whether that praise is warranted, and forbid any kind of observations or criticism of his shortcomings whether they be personal or professional, then I am in complete agreement with you: maybe I don't belong here.

However, I don't believe that this site does have those restrictions. I could be wrong; I'm sure Craig or Amos or Suzi will inform me when I've crossed that line, and take appropriate action.

I realise that I hold an unpopular view; but does that mean I'm hobbled from expressing that view simply because this is a fan site and therefore I must only sing his praises? I do sing his praises, quite a bit. But I'm not blinded by illusion, either. Where else could I go to express my thoughts - and my disappointments - if not here? Just because I disagree with some folks here about aspects of his character, does that mean I'm not allowed to say so?

I'd like nothing more than to be proved wrong, in a big way or even in a small way. If he turns up here one day and says and does nice things, I will bow my head in shame and admit I misjudged his character. I doubt it will happen; but one never knows. I won't be holding my breath, though.

-TD, who loves the illusion as much as the next girl, but accepts that reality is likely very different

Hi iam having my say now steven would have to have his bad days ok..
like everybody else.
Iam with you Lotussan i would not like to be treated bad by anybody
thats just not on.
Never expect the unexpected, (in other words it could happen).

 

[ORANGATUANG]

I am not under any big illusions, and I am not making any serious judgements no matter what anyone here thinks I am doing...I can't see how anyone can do that, really...HOWEVER, I do know how I feel about this man, based upon my perception of what I have seen and heard, and frankly I don't think anyone can ever change that, even the real deal himself couldn't burst my bubble, so to speak, heh, heh...

Yep, right on Lotussan same here nobody can change the way i feel about steven he has a verey special place in my heart...
WHAT BUBBLE, oohhh naughty (ha,ha,ha)

All i can say is sticks and stones...

bye.

 

[ORANGATUANG]

Hi again Hallarin thanks and i will catch u later
be cool.. from Heather.