ORANGATUANG
Wildfire
Hey!!! And whats this "Was" tough..any tougher and he would rust..oops!!!..
Was Seagal Really That Tough?
- Thread starter Littledragon
- Start date
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I've done a cursory check for the source of that story; it's mentioned in the Vanity Fair article by Ned Zeman that painted Steven as a complete fraud and used that story as an example. It's also briefly mentioned in passing in the "Dirty Dozen" affair (Bob Wall and various others; curiously, Gene LeBell doesn't say anything about this incident in this article, and apparently backed out of the Dirty Dozen's challenge because he seemed to have acquired a reputation that he was out to "get" Steven and this had compromised some job opportunities as a stunt man). I don't know about it being in Black Belt, but it certainly has circulated around the internet and has turned up, written nearly word for word identically, in various chat rooms.
I was fairly certain I'd seen the story reported by Gene LeBell himself - but mysteriously, all the links to those sources have disappeared. I'd downloaded quite a few references, but I can't find the one where he's telling the story himself (I recall it was in the same article where he explains why he wears a pink judo what-do-you-call-it uniform). The story is now just being circulated by anti-fans of Steven.
Maybe one of our super-snoops can do a better job of googling for it. As I said, every time I thought I'd found the source file, the link was broken.
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Footnote: according to IMDB, the only films Gene LeBell worked on with Steven were Hard to Kill and Out for Justice (oh, yes, and My Giant). Of course, if he got fired off the set of Marked for Death, it wouldn't be listed. But there's no mention anywhere that I could find that Gene LeBell had anything to do with Marked for Death (did it come out before or after Out for Justice? Can't remember.)
I was fairly certain I'd seen the story reported by Gene LeBell himself - but mysteriously, all the links to those sources have disappeared. I'd downloaded quite a few references, but I can't find the one where he's telling the story himself (I recall it was in the same article where he explains why he wears a pink judo what-do-you-call-it uniform). The story is now just being circulated by anti-fans of Steven.
Maybe one of our super-snoops can do a better job of googling for it. As I said, every time I thought I'd found the source file, the link was broken.
----
Footnote: according to IMDB, the only films Gene LeBell worked on with Steven were Hard to Kill and Out for Justice (oh, yes, and My Giant). Of course, if he got fired off the set of Marked for Death, it wouldn't be listed. But there's no mention anywhere that I could find that Gene LeBell had anything to do with Marked for Death (did it come out before or after Out for Justice? Can't remember.)
ORANGATUANG
Wildfire
Hey your efforts are always appreciated TD, that drop kick calling Steven an" FRAUD " i
think that he needs an lesson in respect....
think that he needs an lesson in respect....
yudansha
TheGreatOne
the dirty dozen fiesta...
It's something that Bob Wall made up and without consent of others, used their names - for which he was ridiculed by the dirty dozen 'members' himself! Bob Wall is an attention seeker and is a complete disgrace to the martial arts community! If it wasn't for a long friendship that Chuck Norris had established with Wall before the incident, Wall would be an outsider and looked down upon by all - including Chuck Norris.
It's something that Bob Wall made up and without consent of others, used their names - for which he was ridiculed by the dirty dozen 'members' himself! Bob Wall is an attention seeker and is a complete disgrace to the martial arts community! If it wasn't for a long friendship that Chuck Norris had established with Wall before the incident, Wall would be an outsider and looked down upon by all - including Chuck Norris.
tenshinaikidoka
Martial Art Student
Very True Yudansha, very very true.
ORANGATUANG
Wildfire
What an jerk all he thinks about himself and to hell with any one else..If he hurts any ones feelings bad luck ...i know Chuck Norris should kick his butt...
Littledragon
Above The Law
Bob Wall Sucks!
I totally agree. Bob Wall is so bad at martial arts as well.
yudansha said:
I totally agree. Bob Wall is so bad at martial arts as well.
Reservoir Dog
MRKD4DTH
Td
Do you have the link to that vanity fair article?
Do you have the link to that vanity fair article?
Oh, it's a lovely article, full of innuendo and suggestion, "sources say" and what not - and I'm probably going to get shot down for giving you the link but here it is:
http://www.american-buddha.com/seagal.seige.htm
The full text of the Gene Lebell story isn't actually in it- I thought it was. I have the full text of it somewhere on my hard drive - but I have two computers and I don't always name things properly!
http://www.american-buddha.com/seagal.seige.htm
The full text of the Gene Lebell story isn't actually in it- I thought it was. I have the full text of it somewhere on my hard drive - but I have two computers and I don't always name things properly!
Horrible, isn't it? The Spy story by John Connolly is even worse. Interestingly, though, John Connolly appears in the E!True Hollywood Story on Steven and has some things to say about him, though they are not unkind things.
Oh, and all those articles from the American Mafia magazine - yikes!
Oh, and all those articles from the American Mafia magazine - yikes!
Gary Gabelhouse
New Member
Bob Wall, Gene LeBell, Seagal information . . .
Hello All,
This LeBell incident and the Bob Wall incident(s) showing up on these boards has caused me to chime in. I have had many personal conversations with Bob Wall. When he created World Black Belt with Chuck Norris and a host of other martial notables, and knowing of my martial arts background, a number of venture capitalists and angel investors I know told Wall that they would seek my opinions before investing money into the World Black Belt venture.
I certainly knew of Wall and, in my opinion, he WAS a very competent martial artist with a good fighting record in the old "blood and guts" days of Karate tournaments. Though older now, my guess is he is still very capable. That said, my interactions with him left me unimpressed with regard to the spirit of Budo.
First, he swore like a sailor--gratuitously swearing. Now, I swear like a sailor, too, but not in business and especially in a business interaction with someone I didn't know. I found his language to be a detriment.
Second, he exuded an "air of testosterone" and an "I can kick anyone's butt" attitude. Budo is not about fighting. Budo is about not fighting. Budo is not about physical violence--it is about avoiding violence and violent people. As my teacher says, "Fighting is for babies and fools." Sure, we train and study to defend ourselves and others, but doing so . . . without unnecessary violence. Just my opinion (and my teacher's).
Having heard of the LeBell incident (my teacher was on the 1964 U.S. Olympic Judo team, knew, trained with and even fought Judo Gene LaBell) I had heard that Wall was present at the choking incident. I asked Wall about what happened between Seagal and LeBell.
He confirmed the following to me:
1. Gene LeBell was working as a Stunt Coordinator/Director, not a stunt man (LeBell is an old man--late 60's or even 70);
2. Gene LeBell was working on the "Under Siege" set;
3. The incident was caused due to Seagal "bragging" about how, through his training, he could not be choked out or rendered unconscious. He did "invite" (not so much of a challenge) anyone in the group of stunt men to "try;"
4. Gene LeBell, a once world-class Judo player and professional wrestler, accepted the offer;
5. LeBell choked out Seagal in about 6 seconds (no surprise to me).
6. When unconscious, Seagal lost bladder control and soiled his pants (I have had this happen to me, so, no surprise to me).
Wall went on to speak about how he challenged Seagal to a fight and "Faced him down." Not surprising. If a budoka is challenged, they will certainly avoid a senseless fight. I have done so a number of times and see no shame in "not accepting a challenge."
Well, based on my first and subsequent conversations with Wall, and despite he DID have one or two good business concepts, I told my investor associates to "take a pass on the World Black Belt business plan."
Another Seagal fight incident was conveyed to me by a good friend who was the Security Director at an upscale night club in New York City. He told me that he SAW Seagal challenge a professional, mixed martial artist only to get knocked out (a 1-punch fight). My friend said he had both parties ejected. Now, I can't say that this is true, because I didn't see it myself. However, I do believe that "something" happened due to the fact I trust my friend.
Sorry for the long post. At the end of the day, I'm still a Seagal fan and wish him and all of his fans all of the best in life.
Best Regards,
Gary Gabelhouse
Hello All,
This LeBell incident and the Bob Wall incident(s) showing up on these boards has caused me to chime in. I have had many personal conversations with Bob Wall. When he created World Black Belt with Chuck Norris and a host of other martial notables, and knowing of my martial arts background, a number of venture capitalists and angel investors I know told Wall that they would seek my opinions before investing money into the World Black Belt venture.
I certainly knew of Wall and, in my opinion, he WAS a very competent martial artist with a good fighting record in the old "blood and guts" days of Karate tournaments. Though older now, my guess is he is still very capable. That said, my interactions with him left me unimpressed with regard to the spirit of Budo.
First, he swore like a sailor--gratuitously swearing. Now, I swear like a sailor, too, but not in business and especially in a business interaction with someone I didn't know. I found his language to be a detriment.
Second, he exuded an "air of testosterone" and an "I can kick anyone's butt" attitude. Budo is not about fighting. Budo is about not fighting. Budo is not about physical violence--it is about avoiding violence and violent people. As my teacher says, "Fighting is for babies and fools." Sure, we train and study to defend ourselves and others, but doing so . . . without unnecessary violence. Just my opinion (and my teacher's).
Having heard of the LeBell incident (my teacher was on the 1964 U.S. Olympic Judo team, knew, trained with and even fought Judo Gene LaBell) I had heard that Wall was present at the choking incident. I asked Wall about what happened between Seagal and LeBell.
He confirmed the following to me:
1. Gene LeBell was working as a Stunt Coordinator/Director, not a stunt man (LeBell is an old man--late 60's or even 70);
2. Gene LeBell was working on the "Under Siege" set;
3. The incident was caused due to Seagal "bragging" about how, through his training, he could not be choked out or rendered unconscious. He did "invite" (not so much of a challenge) anyone in the group of stunt men to "try;"
4. Gene LeBell, a once world-class Judo player and professional wrestler, accepted the offer;
5. LeBell choked out Seagal in about 6 seconds (no surprise to me).
6. When unconscious, Seagal lost bladder control and soiled his pants (I have had this happen to me, so, no surprise to me).
Wall went on to speak about how he challenged Seagal to a fight and "Faced him down." Not surprising. If a budoka is challenged, they will certainly avoid a senseless fight. I have done so a number of times and see no shame in "not accepting a challenge."
Well, based on my first and subsequent conversations with Wall, and despite he DID have one or two good business concepts, I told my investor associates to "take a pass on the World Black Belt business plan."
Another Seagal fight incident was conveyed to me by a good friend who was the Security Director at an upscale night club in New York City. He told me that he SAW Seagal challenge a professional, mixed martial artist only to get knocked out (a 1-punch fight). My friend said he had both parties ejected. Now, I can't say that this is true, because I didn't see it myself. However, I do believe that "something" happened due to the fact I trust my friend.
Sorry for the long post. At the end of the day, I'm still a Seagal fan and wish him and all of his fans all of the best in life.
Best Regards,
Gary Gabelhouse
yudansha
TheGreatOne
Thanks, Gary for taking the time to explain all this...
LeBell is a very respectable figure, but I wouldn't believe anything that comes out of Bob Wall's mouth (basically, I wouldn't trust him with anything)...
"train and study to defend ourselves and others, but doing so . . . without unnecessary violence"
I agree on that to the very last letter!
"he SAW Seagal challenge a professional, mixed martial artist only to get knocked out (a 1-punch fight)"
Do you know if that was Seagal's bodyguard? Because I've heard of that story (it was actually in a newspaper once) but it talked about his bodyguard in particular ... a very similar story to that with Van Damme (where Van Damme got knocked out with one punch by his bodyguard at a bar/night club)...
Again, thanks for your input.
LeBell is a very respectable figure, but I wouldn't believe anything that comes out of Bob Wall's mouth (basically, I wouldn't trust him with anything)...
"train and study to defend ourselves and others, but doing so . . . without unnecessary violence"
I agree on that to the very last letter!
"he SAW Seagal challenge a professional, mixed martial artist only to get knocked out (a 1-punch fight)"
Do you know if that was Seagal's bodyguard? Because I've heard of that story (it was actually in a newspaper once) but it talked about his bodyguard in particular ... a very similar story to that with Van Damme (where Van Damme got knocked out with one punch by his bodyguard at a bar/night club)...
Again, thanks for your input.
Littledragon
Above The Law
Thanks!
Thanks Gary. I believe that is what I have heard as well.
Gary Gabelhouse said:
Thanks Gary. I believe that is what I have heard as well.
Littledragon
Above The Law
tora said:Oh,so walls have long ears here...
Looks that way..
Well, actually as with most martial arts situations things are not as they appear. Master Seagall claimed he could defend against any technique applied on him. He defended agaisnt Gene Lebell's choke by the little known dung fu technique called the "exploding skunk in pants". It was effective becuase it caused Mr. Lebell to let go.
ORANGATUANG
Wildfire
What do you mean by "WAS" he still "IS"...
Donald Lee Wilkey
A Steven Seagal fan
You been spending too much time in the tabloids
Tabloids are what sells a performer in print, Seagal uses it like any other performer to help his career
Wise planning, if you ask me
Steven Seagal knows how to move other's minds (mastery of flowing energy or universal power or charisma)
Maybe, it's time you read up on chi, ki, or prana, and meditational practices(soft martial arts; tai chi, aikido, ba gua zhang, hsing-i,yoga, accupressure, and so on), it assists one to interact and defend one's self verbally without having to resort to brute force(as say in the hard martial arts)to solve one's confrontations and helps improve social skills in society
Littledragon said:We all know Steven Seagal is a Martial Art 7th Degree Master Blackbelt in Aikido, and we all heard the stories of Seagal beating the other Japanese challengers because he was a foreignor. We have all seen his movies where he is proclaimed as this tough guy, I can beat you up don't mess with me kind of persona. We all know he can fight and we all know he has this amazing attitude that everyone likes to say, that's my man.
But we also have heard all the stories of how Seagal was frightened in his pants when he was threatened by the Italian Mafia and we have all heard how one of the world's best grapplers "Judo" Gene LeBell choked him out on the set of Under Siege when Seagal was kind of walking around challenging different people. We all know Seagal is tough but how tough is he really?
Has his tough guy image been pulled down by the recent incidents that has happened?
What are your thoughts?
Just a crazy idea I came up with.
Tabloids are what sells a performer in print, Seagal uses it like any other performer to help his career
Wise planning, if you ask me
Steven Seagal knows how to move other's minds (mastery of flowing energy or universal power or charisma)
Maybe, it's time you read up on chi, ki, or prana, and meditational practices(soft martial arts; tai chi, aikido, ba gua zhang, hsing-i,yoga, accupressure, and so on), it assists one to interact and defend one's self verbally without having to resort to brute force(as say in the hard martial arts)to solve one's confrontations and helps improve social skills in society
Donald Lee Wilkey
A Steven Seagal fan
Steven Seagal upset Bob Wall's ego
Bob Wall didn't want to make room for Steven Seagal's reality in Hollywood, simple as that!
Gary Gabelhouse said:
Bob Wall didn't want to make room for Steven Seagal's reality in Hollywood, simple as that!
ORANGATUANG
Wildfire
What do you mean by WAS he that tough?..News to me he hasnt changed he can still pack an wollop...
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